SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

[LowtherCastle]

One more question: What happens if our cost is the same as Toku's? Both at 20, for instance.

 

[ZPV]

ZPV, in your calcs above, you're not adding TheirPower+10 in the numerator. Does the formula have that +10 or not?

Good point. It does have the +10; I just forgot about it. I'll edit my previous post.

One more question: What happens if our cost is the same as Toku's? Both at 20, for instance.

He'll accept the deal. In particular, what he gets has to be at least 91% of what he gives.

I tested it with the test save (fiddling about a bit)... and Toku will CF or DoP on t41 in that, as expected.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Same here. Also, in my excel calcs, Toku's power has to get to 85 to make the costs equal at 30 and 120 to make it 30/20.

So I think the steal is a no-brainer. We'll need to move the marble-SE-E warrior 1E to cover fogbusting duties for a turn or three. Then there's the question of what to do with the worker. At most he can mine Delhi-1W before returning to mine the gold, so maybe he should defog instead. The warrior and wkr could move to corn-1NW, then next turn the worker can go to the hill safely, returning to the safety of the warrio if there's wolf within range or just fogbusting, while the warrior goes back to the hill, freeing the marble warrior to return to his previous spot.

Osaka will help fogbust for us.


I guess the warrior isn't needed at Zlatorog since we won't have a resource improvement to draw a barb in prematurely.


Then there's the mine-gold or pasture-sheep first pandora's box . . .

Finally, there's the question of whether to send our warrior to defog Kyoto on T40/41, whichever it is.

 

[ZPV]

Due to the test (in which Toku built another archer and a barracks) working nicely, and the discussion, I propose:
Steal the worker.
Keep on Masonry/Settler.
Retreat with the Warrior next turn to the hill outside Osaka's inner ring (where the warrior is now).

The Worker can't do that much useful before Gold City - I could build a partial farm and prevent a forest from growing - instead, I'll just keep it well out of sight so we don't accidentally tempt an archer towards our very threatening warrior, on one of the spots we don't want a forest to grow, due to settler moves.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Are there one or two archers in Osaka?

 

[ZPV]

Same here. Also, in my excel calcs, Toku's power has to get to 85 to make the costs equal at 30 and 120 to make it 30/20.

So I think the steal is a no-brainer. We'll need to move the marble-SE-E warrior 1E to cover fogbusting duties for a turn or three. Then there's the question of what to do with the worker. At most he can mine Delhi-1W before returning to mine the gold, so maybe he should defog instead. The warrior and wkr could move to corn-1NW, then next turn the worker can go to the hill safely, returning to the safety of the warrio if there's wolf within range or just fogbusting, while the warrior goes back to the hill, freeing the marble warrior to return to his previous spot.

Osaka will help fogbust for us.


I guess the warrior isn't needed at Zlatorog since we won't have a resource improvement to draw a barb in prematurely.


Then there's the mine-gold or pasture-sheep first pandora's box . . .

Finally, there's the question of whether to send our warrior to defog Kyoto on T40/41, whichever it is.

I really don't want to run into an Attack Archer. If I have to juggle the warrior about to avoid one, then so be it, but marching towards Kyoto feels like too much risk of running into one.
Similarly, the worker could perform that role on t41, but I just don't think it's worth the risk.

 

[LowtherCastle]

You can check Toku's power graph. It hasn't increased for quite some time and will go up by 3k when he completes an archer. Until then our warrior's safe, unless Osaka has two archers.

xpost: Okay, forget defogging Kyoto. We might run into a lion or two if we skirt to the NE and saving our warriors will help our MM big time.

What do you think about the worker defogging that hill? It only means leaving a couple tiles unfogbusted SW of the marble an extra two turns at most.

 

[ZPV]

Are there one or two archers in Osaka?

One.
5chars.

 

[ZPV]

You can check Toku's power graph. It hasn't increased for quite some time and will go up by 3k when he completes an archer. Until then our warrior's safe, unless Osaka has two archers.

Toku has 3 archers total, I believe. That could be 1 city defense in each city, and one roaming one. It's the roaming one I'm scared of.

 

[LowtherCastle]

ZPV, I edited post #787 in case you missed that. Otherwise I'm fine on your plan with the addition of the marble warrior fogbusting and maybe defogging with the worker.

 

[ZPV]

ZPV, I edited post #787 in case you missed that. Otherwise I'm fine on your plan with the addition of the marble warrior fogbusting and maybe defogging with the worker.

Yes, I missed it.

You can check Toku's power graph. It hasn't increased for quite some time and will go up by 3k when he completes an archer. Until then our warrior's safe, unless Osaka has two archers.

xpost: Okay, forget defogging Kyoto. We might run into a lion or two if we skirt to the NE and saving our warriors will help our MM big time.

What do you think about the worker defogging that hill? It only means leaving a couple tiles unfogbusted SW of the marble an extra two turns at most.

The hill N of Osaka? That's clever. I was expecting to get some of that tile visibility while improving the sheep, but this is better.
So it's t37: move warrior (in case of weird wolf attacking through the sheep, which I think is impossible, but am not sure), and fast worker to sheep-1S (the worker peeking north before coming back)
t38: worker onto hill, then retreats again. If it's safe, the warrior will move onto that hill and camp there, with the worker defogging to the southwest. Else (and there will most likely be a lion somewhere), the warrior retreats to its original position to threaten Osaka.


Yes, I'll move the marble warrior to cover the squares on our settler's path this turn.

 

[ZPV]

btw: Toku settled Osaka 1S of where he prefers to in the test save. Maybe there's a resource we don't know about.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, now that I checked it again, the warrior at Corn-NW fogbusts the same western tiles as from the hill, so the marble warrior can return immeidately. Furthermore, your idea of the worker peaking to the north opened up the idea of the worker simply going to corn-NE(!) the 2W to the warrior. That gets us a couple more eastern tiles defogged.

Good spot on teh sheep protecting that channel. That's even better, because we don't really need that warrior getting attacked. Let's just hope nothing goes up on the hill, but if so, the two could retreat to the current hill and then try again in a couple of turns.

Fun!

xpost: Good point on the resource. Hm... Well, worst comes to worst, we'll just put a wonder into G1E and overrun Osaka with culture...

 

[LowtherCastle]

btw: Toku settled Osaka 1S of where he prefers to in the test save. Maybe there's a resource we don't know about.

Hang on... That wouldn't make any sense. We see horses too, so what could he see that we don't? We already see the tiles close to Kyoto.

 

[ZPV]

Okay, now that I checked it again, the warrior at Corn-NW fogbusts the same western tiles as from the hill, so the marble warrior can return immeidately. Furthermore, your idea of the worker peaking to the north opened up the idea of the worker simply going to corn-NE(!) the 2W to the warrior. That gets us a couple more eastern tiles defogged.

Good spot on teh sheep protecting that channel. That's even better, because we don't really need that warrior getting attacked. Let's just hope nothing goes up on the hill, but if so, the two could retreat to the current hill and then try again in a couple of turns.

Fun!

xpost: Good point on the resource. Hm... Well, worst comes to worst, we'll just put a wonder into G1E and overrun Osaka with culture...

Ha! Good idea for the initial worker move.
I'll sum up the ideas so far about this in the next post, for any lurkers/teammates reading this.

 

[ZPV]

Hang on... That wouldn't make any sense. We see horses too, so what could he see that we don't? We already see the tiles close to Kyoto.

Putting a copper tile near Hammy might be enough to change the preferred settling spot, for all I know.

 

[ZPV]

Worker Stealing 101
We see a vulnerable Japanese worker, and want to capture it.
Q. Will we be able to get peace afterwards?
A. Yes. With AggressiveAI on, threatening a Japanese city with our warrior (by being within 2 tiles of it), the price of peace goes down so much that if we don't lose any battles, we can get peace for free.
Q. How long before we can get peace?
A. If we don't lose any battles, 5 turns.
Q. What do we do about fogbusting, etc, now?
A. The 3-move fast worker is very useful. It can poke around to the north of Osaka and then retreat to safety, all on the same turn. The fogbuster to the south of Delhi will have to move east briefly to cover a hole.
Q. Are you sure about this?
A. Yes. I've even tried replicating the conditions in the test save, and gotten a CF or DoP from Toku as expected.
Q. What about Toku's units?
A. At the moment, he only has 3 Archers, and at most one is dangerous. That one is not in Osaka (which has just one Archer), so we can capture the worker without fearing attack.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Talk is cheap, Professor. Let's see some action!

 

[ZPV]

Talk is cheap, Professor. Let's see some action!

I have an errand to run, while there's a break in the rain.
I'll have a go in about half an hour.

 

[Mitchum]

Very exciting. And all of this happened while I was asleep...

I agree with the plan. Take the worker and continue with Masonry.

Since we'll be getting our second worker, should we switch northern gold (whatever the f LC named it) to two warriors for safety/fog busting? At two pops, it will have the ability to poprush in an emergency once we know BW. Plus, with an extra pop, it will pump out workers that much faster.

I don't have Civ handy, but when is the settler due and will we still try to settle eastern gold next? Or do we need to draw up plans for gems next?

Finally, what is the Pandora's box regarding sheep or gold first? I thought I showed that sheep first comes out ahead in all categories...

Damn "H" key is flaky on my daughters' keyboard. See how many missing Hs you can find...