SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects

The river is already included in the food calculation for the unimproved corn (Edit: maybe not). (farmed dry corn = 5f, farmed wet = 6f)

I'll have to reopen the save to look at the warrior moves.
 
Yes - it is +3f, I was wrong. If it is +3f after improvement, then 3h+7f would go into the settler (6f from corn + 3f from FP + 2f from city -4f to feed 2 citizens = 7f into settler), so it would be done on turn 30, not 31.
 
The tool tip when you hover on the tile doesn't include the irrigation in the improvement, which threw me off. I should have known. my "back of the envelope" calculations are always suspect. :)

The warrior could stand 1NW of the gold and fogbust the route to the gold city site, I believe. It would take 5 turns to get there.
 
Actually, our current cultural borders would fogbust 1 of those tiles and they are going to expand again before the settler is done, so Guru wouldn't even have to go that far back. This will require a test game to work out, obviously.
 
9 turns to build the settler and 5 to move the warrior leaves 4 turns to hang around Tokugawa, or alternatively 4 turns to fogbust the city site.

Remember there's a lion just north of our SE warriors.
 
The river running along the mountains would allow us to expand a long way North without the need for roads to connect our cities. Might be useful if there are strategic resources up there.
 
Way back on page 13...

PPP: duration to settler built (t31/2760BC)
tech: agri->BW
build order: worker ->settler (all at pop2)
micro: citizens working corn and FP until mine finishes, then corn+mine.
worker actions: 2t into mine 1W from Bollywood, start farming corn immediately on turn agri completes. go back and finish mine. (loses 1worker turn to movement; alternative is to farm the FP before mining, but it is slower to completion).

Status at completion: t31/2760BC 3warriors(existing, none built); 1settler (new), BW in 4t, new warrior in 2t.
Click to expand...


The settler should finish at end of turn on t30 and be ready to move on t31. If you can beat that, awesome!

I feel we should be going for AH instead of BW, though.

Do we have agreement that AH is next tech, or are there still holdouts for BW? Once we decide the next tech, I approve of AAA playing up to completion of that tech (which occurs before settler if we go AH). Xcal's in the driver seat though, because I have an essay to write.:(
 
[yawn] Awake, almost.
I dream of typing that I don't mind us teching AH next if others want it. I suck in early wars like 6000 SUX anyway. However we should remember that once we have barracks and maybe theocracy those city raider promotions could maybe ruin the day of more than one Toku-something. But maybe it's wiser to get horses (if any) first.
Spoiler :
As a joke, if the game would allow, we could substitute oxen for horses. We would need machinery tech though to build gearboxes that could accelerate our chariots to sufficient speeds since oxies are kind of slow. Or maybe get deer from that game tile to pull light chariots? No? Nobody ever listens me. (The last phrase is from some civs who try to get us to adopt their favorite civic and get turned down. I think it's mildly hilarious.)

How about teching bronze after we find that the only horses were just claimed by one Toku or another? If we happen to find horses conviniently located maybe some smarter players would advocate another tech, maybe on the oracle path?
I still think theology is a nice tech to oracle: it gives AP to prevent AI's from getting it and theocrazy for the inevitable early wars.
I guess everybody agrees that the Two Tokus must die, soon or sooner?

I dream of posting this before drifting into another sweet dream where I am once again hacked into pieces by a cross of B5 Shadow and Starship troopers arachnid. Ahh, the sweet dreams of old age...
I'd rather have the Awwky Birdy's dream though (Star Control 2, anyone?);)
 
kcd_swede said:
PRO gives first strike to archery units and chariots ignore first strikes. Chariots against Babylon (who gets further bonus on melee) is a clear advantage over axes. Axes can defend the captures better, though... but by the time we need them we'd have BW. Of course, we don't know where/if there are horses... or metals.
Click to expand...
Do chariots ignore first strikes? I believe Horse archers are the first non-unique mounted units that ignore first strikes? Does this affect the choise between AH and BW?

Back to :sleep:
 
kcd, a few comments about that mini-turnset.

1. It isn't clear that AAA wants to continue playing. Do we know if he wants to finish the turnset?

2. I think we need a more detailed idea of where the warriors should go. In particular, I'd like us to have agreement about the plan for the settler escort.

3. I don't agree with the worker plan. Testing is required. If, and only if, finishing the mine speeds up the settler, then let's do that. Otherwise, I think it would be better to farm the floodplain.

4. Is "seeing Tokugawa worker or settler" a pause condition? Are there any other new pause conditions?
 
Chariots do not ignore first strikes, but they do have a 10% withdrawal chance.

I, too, would like more testing. I was unable to get the settler completed and ready to move by T30 (always came up 1 hammer short) but now that the save is loaded I can compare it with the test game to see if the current hammers agree. I compared going Hunting first and settling N of the gold vs AH with settling E of the gold and the latter plan looks slightly better but someone still needs to optimize its worker activities. I think there's also a possibility that we might want to settle even farther east to block Japan depending on what our warriors uncover.

On the warriors/fogbusting/escort business, it's looking like our eastern units won't be able to get much farther so timing for escort shouldn't be a big deal. I'd like to keep the worker-steal option open by posting a Woody warrior next to the sheep hill (and pause the game if a worker appears) but if we do not want to do that we should bring him back to help fogbust. Opinions?

If we play to AH then we need to decide what to build after the settler finishes. How about another worker so we have one for Bollywood and one for City#2? That's what I did in my test games.

BW would be nice for chopping and whipping but I don't think we have enough workers or population to properly leverage that yet. AH lets us pasture the sheep--growth is paramount--and also reveals horses. My testing convinced me AH first is better than Hunting.

After AH I'd probably go with Wheel to get city trade going (+2 gpt), but if we don't have horses then I'd probably go with BW. But that's for the future...
 
ChrisShaffer said:
kcd, a few comments about that mini-turnset.

1. It isn't clear that AAA wants to continue playing. Do we know if he wants to finish the turnset?

2. I think we need a more detailed idea of where the warriors should go. In particular, I'd like us to have agreement about the plan for the settler escort.

3. I don't agree with the worker plan. Testing is required. If, and only if, finishing the mine speeds up the settler, then let's do that. Otherwise, I think it would be better to farm the floodplain.

4. Is "seeing Tokugawa worker or settler" a pause condition? Are there any other new pause conditions?
Click to expand...

Hello All,

If it is alright with the team I think I'll hand off to the next player. It was good for getting into game but I'd be glad to do some back seat driving and test game running for awhile:D.

Is a PPP firming up yet,I can't tell:)?
 
I can't remember if I attached the most recent Test game or not so here it is at T21. I can't get the rivers to come out but they're OK for regions we care about at the moment. The hammers are correct but there's one more beaker in the pot than there should be.

Farming the corn gives it 6 fpt. If we then finish the mine we come up 1 hammer short for the settler--he finishes and is ready to move on T31. There's nothing we can do to speed that up. Farming the FP takes 7 turns--I'll play around some more and see if that's better in the long run than finishing the mine.
 

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Your test results look correct. The settler finishes on turn 31. My calculations must have been off last night.

I might have time to try some tests later today for AH vs BW, worker moves, and city builds
 
Prelim (but probably final) PPP through completion of Animal Husbandry

21 Start AH, continue building settler.
24 Borders pop. This probably a good time to start moving the non-Woody warrior in the SE back NW to fogbust/escort the future settler.
25 Corn farm complete.
26 Worker starts farming FP (1/7).
31 Settler complete with 10 overflow into fast worker. 4 turns to reach 1E of gold.
32 FP farm complete. AH is 2 beakers short.
33 AH done --> Wheel (tentative). Stop here. Where are the horses? If settling plans do not change then FW would start moving toward sheep.

If we were to continue, this MM works well:
34 Found city#2 1E of gold, start monument. Not sure if working unpastured sheep or the unmined gold is better--I suspect the gold to speed the monument.
35 Start sheep pasture (1/4).
36 Bollywood FW complete (1 overflow) -> warrior. FW restarts mine build (3/4).
37 Mine complete.
39 Pasture complete. Bollywood to pop 3.

Edit: Post Woody warrior in SE on the hill next to Japan's sheep. Stop the game if a worker appears.
NW warrior continues exploring if he survives the lion.
Someone mentioned a(nother?) lion? Where?
 
If we build settler -> worker #2 OR settler -> settler #2 then farming floodplain is better. If we build something else first then finishing the mine is probably better - in part because we would grow to pop 3.
 
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