unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
I would vote for Space too but only because I am horrible at Diplo.
SGOTM 18 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
pigswill
fly (one day)
No votes for culture so far. I'd reckon this means growing empire while being nice to a couple of AIs (Mansa and Gandhi?). In the immediate future this means war!
Seems like the preferred combination is three city axe rush. If we ain't in a big rush to research anything before going to war it probably means prioritising hammers/whips over commerce in the short term.
Seems like the preferred combination is three city axe rush. If we ain't in a big rush to research anything before going to war it probably means prioritising hammers/whips over commerce in the short term.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Some thoughts.
Diplo
Mansa and Gandhi are the obvious AIs to befriend in case of Diplo.
Obviously we need an AI to build the UN for us and to beat in the elections.
- With Rome it's not possible and even not assured they can be eligible. They are also very dangerous thanks to the MP and the techs they know.
- Shaka is too dangerous and must be wiped, in addition he's got a +3 with them.
- Gengis see Shaka, aside the +3
Arrive to MM and paras is not much less than Space, since we have already 2 important and expensive techs and we can even skip Plastics.
Space
I quote myself:
It doesn't fit well with paratroopers, as i already said. A good Space game with a lot of early warfare is what we need.
Diplo
Mansa and Gandhi are the obvious AIs to befriend in case of Diplo.
Obviously we need an AI to build the UN for us and to beat in the elections.
- With Rome it's not possible and even not assured they can be eligible. They are also very dangerous thanks to the MP and the techs they know.
- Shaka is too dangerous and must be wiped, in addition he's got a +3 with them.
- Gengis see Shaka, aside the +3
Arrive to MM and paras is not much less than Space, since we have already 2 important and expensive techs and we can even skip Plastics.
Space
I quote myself:
Culture
It doesn't fit well with paratroopers, as i already said. A good Space game with a lot of early warfare is what we need.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Well there has been very little discussion going on so here is my 2 cents:
1. No matter what VC we go for, an Axe rush on Joao is needed.
2. We want to settle the horse city ASAP
3. We do NOT need to make any long term decisions based solely on BLubmuz's desire or belief that we must have paratroopers to win this game.
While I think that there is a chance that the mapmaker designed something really nasty into the map that will require thought on our part, we have gotten caught in the last 2 games deciding that the only solution to a problem was paratroopers and other teams prove that to be a flawed theory.
We don't need to decide a VC before Pigswilll can play his second half. We just need a PPP to tweak.
1. No matter what VC we go for, an Axe rush on Joao is needed.
2. We want to settle the horse city ASAP
3. We do NOT need to make any long term decisions based solely on BLubmuz's desire or belief that we must have paratroopers to win this game.
While I think that there is a chance that the mapmaker designed something really nasty into the map that will require thought on our part, we have gotten caught in the last 2 games deciding that the only solution to a problem was paratroopers and other teams prove that to be a flawed theory.
We don't need to decide a VC before Pigswilll can play his second half. We just need a PPP to tweak.
pigswill
fly (one day)
A Partially Petrified Penguin (PPP):
T29 Anarchy![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
. Worker moves to copper hill.
T30 Slavery
. Start mining. NY and Wash go for food.
T31. Washington warrior>rax.
T33. Washington pop 4. Start settler (pause rax).
T34 copper mined.
T35 NY pop 2. Worker goes to Washington.
T36. Worker starts west road from Washington to One Horse Town.
T37. NY WB>Worker.
T38. Washington doublewhip settler, grows on cottage and wheat.
T40. NY whips worker.
T41. Settle One Horse Town.
T29 Anarchy
. Worker moves to copper hill.T30 Slavery
. Start mining. NY and Wash go for food.T31. Washington warrior>rax.
T33. Washington pop 4. Start settler (pause rax).
T34 copper mined.
T35 NY pop 2. Worker goes to Washington.
T36. Worker starts west road from Washington to One Horse Town.
T37. NY WB>Worker.
T38. Washington doublewhip settler, grows on cottage and wheat.
T40. NY whips worker.
T41. Settle One Horse Town.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
That works! thumbs up!
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
OK, good one! Now we can start planning Joao's wiping.
But first i'd like to know where the people is.
I've seen posts from 3 persons including me. Mastiff said he will lurk (please correct me if i'm wrong).
Enkage is disappeared
Folket posted a row about culture and disappeared
Shaan should have been back last week, but no news... i was sincerely worried for him, but i've seen he was active last 28th... why not a post?
We can play this one even in 2, but i'd prefere to know it now. Who's up?
We can discuss the final target in any moment, but Joao must die: we need room in any case, so we can move this on. If we need a more informed decision, we can use the WB to explore before the net and build another one for the fish.
EDIT: pigswill, i noticed you haven't uploaded your save: do you plan to play some more turns or you just forgot to do it?
But first i'd like to know where the people is.
I've seen posts from 3 persons including me. Mastiff said he will lurk (please correct me if i'm wrong).
Enkage is disappeared
Folket posted a row about culture and disappeared
Shaan should have been back last week, but no news... i was sincerely worried for him, but i've seen he was active last 28th... why not a post?
We can play this one even in 2, but i'd prefere to know it now. Who's up?
We can discuss the final target in any moment, but Joao must die: we need room in any case, so we can move this on. If we need a more informed decision, we can use the WB to explore before the net and build another one for the fish.
EDIT: pigswill, i noticed you haven't uploaded your save: do you plan to play some more turns or you just forgot to do it?
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
I believe he posted a PPP for his other half. I don't think he has played yet
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
He has the green light from me
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
This lack of discussion is duping me.
Yeah it was a PPP. I don't like much those hard whippings, but i think we can sacrifice something. I also think that my plan to explore with the WB doesn't fit with the worker whip. We need another WB for clams once we settle a city by them and stone, so it can arrive after the worker.
OK, green light from me too.
Pigswill, try to discover if Evil's Lair is actually reachable only with paras.
I think the air has gone out of me. I'm reading everyday but I have not had the energy to contribute. The WB should not need many turns to explore so I think we should do that. When we find a way to attack Goldmembers we should do so as soon as possible.
As for long term plan I envision.
1. Take portugal.
2. Take Goldmembers.
3. Get education.
4. move our capital next to swingers pad and blast it with spies.
5. capture evils lair.
I think we can go for both diplomatic and space victory. All we have to do it play nice with Mansa and Gandhi. Tech trade will help either victory. In 50 turns we will have a better view on what victory is fastest.
As for long term plan I envision.
1. Take portugal.
2. Take Goldmembers.
3. Get education.
4. move our capital next to swingers pad and blast it with spies.
5. capture evils lair.
I think we can go for both diplomatic and space victory. All we have to do it play nice with Mansa and Gandhi. Tech trade will help either victory. In 50 turns we will have a better view on what victory is fastest.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Are you sick? Take care.
About your long term, i hope that we can know about paras/no paras by the end of next TS (not the one PW is completing).
We don't need to move our capital, we need just a good city to produce spies.
UT, have you finished your course? All well?
pigswill
fly (one day)
I uploaded the 2880bc save ages ago.
I'm still not completely happy with my PPP and still wondering if we're better off without whipping. Its a tricky one because its a matter of balancing lost tiles from Washy and NY with earlier yields from 1HT (one horse town (will it become Boston or Philadelphia?)). My instinct is we'll probably be better off in terms of hammers but lose commerce as we regrow Washy without working gold and marble for a few turns.
@Folket. Good thing about sgotm is that its a long game, hopefully you'll regain energy and enthusiasm when other teamies are beginning to lose theirs.
I'm still not completely happy with my PPP and still wondering if we're better off without whipping. Its a tricky one because its a matter of balancing lost tiles from Washy and NY with earlier yields from 1HT (one horse town (will it become Boston or Philadelphia?)). My instinct is we'll probably be better off in terms of hammers but lose commerce as we regrow Washy without working gold and marble for a few turns.
@Folket. Good thing about sgotm is that its a long game, hopefully you'll regain energy and enthusiasm when other teamies are beginning to lose theirs.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
How many tuns do we gain with the double whip of Wash? Maybe an half-way, 1 pop whip?
pigswill
fly (one day)
We gain 6 turns from a double whip, 3 turns from single whip.
I think this is a fairly accurate update of the test map at 2880bc...
Oops! No fish .
Couple more run throughs. I reckon whip settler and worker asap is the way to go.
I think this is a fairly accurate update of the test map at 2880bc...
Oops! No fish .
Couple more run throughs. I reckon whip settler and worker asap is the way to go.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Based on test save:
Are we sure that settler whip and worker whip is the way to go, and all that before granary? I'm not saying it is necessarily bad, just not sure.
We really need at least one more worker around the time of settling the new city, I'm fairly sure that worker->settler is better. But then maybe a worker whip into granary is even better. My argument is that if we whip the settler first, then we lose some food (capital gets unhealthy), and after settling we have 3 cities, all of them at most size 2, juggling 1 worker around, this situation doesn't change much in ~8 turns. Compare this to settling the city ~8 turns later, having granary in capital, and a worker ready for the pigs, another ready to chop the granary or axes. Even if we rush, this should be stronger and allow better axe production.
I think having that second worker will easily compensate for settling a bit later.
Note that is really just a hunch, no time to test now.
---------
Don't forget to switch to marble instead of unworked FP while producing worker/settler.
The settle spot for horses should be 1N of horses because capital will need all the food it can get, and 1N of horse grabs all green hills. (sorry if that was decided before and I am just reiterating)
Are we sure that settler whip and worker whip is the way to go, and all that before granary? I'm not saying it is necessarily bad, just not sure.
We really need at least one more worker around the time of settling the new city, I'm fairly sure that worker->settler is better. But then maybe a worker whip into granary is even better. My argument is that if we whip the settler first, then we lose some food (capital gets unhealthy), and after settling we have 3 cities, all of them at most size 2, juggling 1 worker around, this situation doesn't change much in ~8 turns. Compare this to settling the city ~8 turns later, having granary in capital, and a worker ready for the pigs, another ready to chop the granary or axes. Even if we rush, this should be stronger and allow better axe production.
I think having that second worker will easily compensate for settling a bit later.
Note that is really just a hunch, no time to test now.
---------
Don't forget to switch to marble instead of unworked FP while producing worker/settler.
The settle spot for horses should be 1N of horses because capital will need all the food it can get, and 1N of horse grabs all green hills. (sorry if that was decided before and I am just reiterating)
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
I do agree that a worker whip into a granary is probably best. We need a granary to make the most out of the whip.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I need to test, but i think PW did it already. To make the most out of the whips we must do them to max the overflow, to use for granaries. Settle Boston (IIRC this is the American 3rd city) few turns later but with granaries almost built is better than gain few turns and have 2 size 1 and 1 size 2 city without granaries and far to come. Then Boston can chop its granary and move to barracks and axes.
Wash can grow very fast even without granary and so NY, but i don't like to waste population.
Wash can grow very fast even without granary and so NY, but i don't like to waste population.
