SGOTM 18 - Plastic Ducks

BiC: to be absolutely precise we went granary on T4 :D

Am I reading the progress page wrong btw or are there many other teams that went for a T31 Alpha? (Not all of them have a 3rd city though.)
 
Doshin said:
Gandhi is absolutely not researching Fishing or Writing, btw. We can make the Writing <----> Mining + Hunting trade, so no worries there.
Click to expand...
Right, my bad. Otherwise trading Writing for Sailing wouldn't be possible.

Then, chances are Gandhi is researching Bronze Working.
And chances are we'll have to self-research AH.

What do we need to do?
- Test the Granary timing in N-Y;
- Decide on worker management near Boston.

Boston's Worker management: we need to cancel orders at each end of turn, in case we can trade for AH.
Before we can pasture, we can farm or chop. We aren't really in position to farm, so maybe we should chop, rather than waste movement.
Chop into the worker would overflow into the Granary after we whip, so there's no real loss. The farm is only really relevant after we've whipped Boston and it's grown back to size 2.

If we're expanding North rather than to the Fish for our 4th city, then I don't think we should try to move Washington's worker back to the floodplains area. Lone worker from N-Y will be best used to improve those.


@UE: yes, my bad, we went Granary, too :D
Also, yes, Alphabet beeline seems popular, and it seems we aren't the only team to have missed AH before Writing :)
 
Right. :blush: I thought about it when I was writing, but I still decided to post it. Just to be sure. Thanks! All those options... :D
And it seems one of first Doshin's options, to go to corn/fur before fish city was the right one. Aaallll the way back @page#24: 467. We'll see after we trade to see strategic resources tho.
 
BiC: moving the worker onto a forest tile now is probably the best. Start chopping next turn if AH cannot be traded for. That's still a 3T margin for AH. Also, the forest can be chopped completely, although I'd put it into another worker and not a granary at this point, to accompany Washington's settler.

Btw Genghis always seems to declare on Mansa ~T50 - 60 in our test game so in the real game he'll likely target us. Fun times :D
 
@UE: yes, probably.
Being 1 tile away from the pigs also have benefits, in case we get AH sooner than expected.
The 2nd improved tile in Boston has really high value (shaves turns growing to 3 & 4), however, so farming should be tested, I suppose. Also, chopping into the Worker during stagnation or into the Granary during growth is strictly equal, as long as we whip the worker. We still have some turns to play before the chop becomes relevant. We just need the chop to be done by the time we're ready to whip the Granary.
Maybe we can't follow that route without AH now. Dunno.


@Our status:
Hmmm... I just noticed we followed shakabrade's suggestion (Doshin's? kossin's?) and switched from Worker to Granary in N-Y when we reached 30/60 in the Worker build...
:sad: I'm not convinced that's best. It hasn't been tested, nor argued for in a very comprehensive manner.
My understanding is that we need overflow :hammers: from the Worker whip to complete the Granary.


I'll have testing time today so I'll come back to this :)
(this: not "what would have been best" but "how to best proceed")


EDIT: some more thoughts
Worker use: The forest 2W of Wash is shared. If we have time (and I believe we have - research time, slavery revolt), then it's better to chop a forest into Boston that is not shared. So we can chop 3 forests in Wash instead of 2.
Chopping 4W of Wash would be a good choice, imo, since it would allow two moves NW, NW out of Boston.

Build orders: if we're willing to settle our 4th by corn/furs (@Dub: I've acknowledged the power of that city already), then we should really consider building the 3rd settler in Boston rather than Washington. Especially if the delay of AH makes us chop more. Wash could build another Worker instead of the settler and it will grow faster.
I've tested that already (t40 tests) and settler in pigs city resulted in the fastest corn/furs city. With chop(s) + a whip, it should still be the fastest way.
 
Reflecting to some of BiC's thoughts and adding some of mine:

Genghis is likely to generate a third and maybe even a fourth settler until T50, which is why I'd suggest settling corn-fur AND sheep-spice until then. Also, we might have to settle an additional spot for metal, that's something we don't know yet.

Also: settler for fish city, which we might also want soonish (otherwise we'll go bankrupt before Currency) may have to be built in NY so 2-pop whipping the granary is better IMO.

BiC: I'm not sure we could get Boston online fast enough to be better than a 10 turn settler in the cap. The other settler for that area should probably come from Boston, which could finish the worker and the granary by then.

Forest chops: chopping 2W of Washington enables a shared farm later and faster travel, which is why I wouldn't be averse to chop that into Boston's worker. The next chop in Boston could be the forest 1NW of the city, again, for faster travel. We won't have time for roads but we can settle both corn-fur and sheep-spice so that they're immediately connected to us via Sailing.
 
OK. I'm ready to make the trades we seemed to agree on, before handing over the game to whoever plays the next TS:

Gandhi: Writing <--> Hunting + Mining
Mansa: Writing + Fishing <--> BW

Green? :)
 
Gogol, Nikolai, is an under-appreciated Russian novelist.
 
We'll need TW sooner or later, for that matter. BW and AH take precedent, but if, say, on T34 Gandhi is still dragging his feet, we should look into part-researching TW, as part of a trade with Mansa of Iron Working + X for Alphabet.

Two Roads strategically placed can increase a Settler's movement points from 1 tile to 4 (e.g. GH, road ----> GH, road, ----> Grassland ----> Grassland). We don't have to build roads along the entire route.

Genghis should demand a rubbish tech before he declares war. That buys us at least ten turns.
 
Priorities can change fast :D
 
Good. Lots of options.

I am even wondering about the merits of stealing a Worker from Genghis. :eek: He has a Worker and single Archer in Beshbalik. We can make peace with Writing; this will check his expansion; at present, he has no unit better than an Archer; we have easy access to Copper; he will DOW us sooner or later; he has Elephants, and a strong Genghis with Elephants will be an enormous hassle; we have a bad need of Worker at present.

Obvious downsides are the risk, lack of early trade routes, and loss of one trading partner. Genghis will also refuse to talk for quite some time.
 
P.S. I eagerly await your skepticism, incredulity, and derision. :p
 
Yep. I mentioned worker stealing earlier and it wasn't really a joke as Shakabrade suspected...

Updated the test game to v12:
 

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I'm not sure it makes sense to start microing yet... how long do we want to wait for AH? Are we prepared to chop multiple forests into settlers and a worker before Maths? Because this is what we'd need to do to settle corn-fur AND fish-copper asap. Plus we'd also want sheep and spice I assume. Also, in the real game we'd want to get IW from Mansa, right? Do we want it for Alpha or can it wait until Maths is in?
 
We just need 1 chopped settler imo. Copper is a good tile but it's not groundbreaking. It's the same worth as grassland hill... and prevents us from building warriors.
 
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