SGOTM 22 - Xteam

[Folket]

Problem with Darius is that he is more expensive to steal from. Seems to be spending more on espionage. But I won't go against the wish of the entire team.

Our woodman guy gives us +25% healing a super medic would give us +20% but also in adjacent tiles. Does not seem worth it to me.

 

[Folket]

turn 139
cancel buying silk from Saladin.

turn 140
trade wine to Darius for banana.
IBT
Saladin built the statue of Zeus.

turn 141
IBT
Brennus attacks one praetorian and loose 5 units before killing it.

turn 142
IBT
A barb galley plunders our fish outside of Caput Mundi.

turn 144
IBT
Brennus looses 5 more untis to kill one Praetorian.

 

[Folket]

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 580 AD to 700 AD:

Turn 139, 580 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Rome. Work has now begun on a Praetorian.
Turn 139, 580 AD: You have trained a Praetorian in Neapolis. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Socrates (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 140, 600 AD: You have trained a Archer in Neapolis. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 140, 600 AD: Saladin has completed The Statue of Zeus!

Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) (17.20)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Gallic Warrior is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) has defeated Brennus's Gallic Warrior!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult (5.00) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) (15.20)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 0.3%
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult (5.00) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) (15.20)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 0.3%
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult (5.00) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) (13.52)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 1.5%
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) (11.74)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 3.1%
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 14 (75/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 14 (61/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 14 (47/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 14 (33/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) has defeated Brennus's Horse Archer!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer (6.60) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) (4.35)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Combat Odds: 96.0%
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 17 (16/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome) is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 620 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer has defeated Julius Caesar's Praetorian 3 (Rome)!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Saladin adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 142, 640 AD: Caput Mundi celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!

Turn 143, 660 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
Turn 143, 660 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 143, 660 AD: Caput Mundi will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 143, 660 AD: Neapolis has grown to size 4.
Turn 143, 660 AD: Saladin has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 143, 660 AD: Saladin has 8 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 143, 660 AD: Caput Mundi will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 143, 660 AD: Caput Mundi celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 143, 660 AD: A Fishing Boats has been destroyed by a marauding Barbarian Galley!

Turn 144, 680 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Caput Mundi!
Turn 144, 680 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Caput Mundi has grown to size 10.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Caput Mundi has become unhealthy.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Caput Mundi can hurry Catapult for 2⇴ with 30ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 15 turns.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus has 140 gold available for trade.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus has 7 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Rome will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Catapult (5.00) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 6 (Caput Mundi) (10.80)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Combat Odds: 3.3%
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 6 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 6 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 6 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Catapult is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 6 (Caput Mundi) has defeated Brennus's Catapult!
Turn 144, 680 AD: While defending, your Praetorian 6 (Caput Mundi) has killed a Celtic Catapult!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Longbowman (6.00) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) (8.09)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Combat Odds: 26.0%
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Hills Attack: -25%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) has defeated Brennus's Longbowman!
Turn 144, 680 AD: While defending, your Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) has killed a Celtic Longbowman!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer (7.20) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) (9.93)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Combat Odds: 20.3%
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 16 (76/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 16 (60/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 16 (44/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 16 (28/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 16 (12/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer has defeated Julius Caesar's Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi)!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Jeanne d'Arc (Great General) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 144, 680 AD: While defending, your Praetorian 11 (Caput Mundi) was destroyed by a Celtic Horse Archer!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer (7.20) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) (9.20)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Combat Odds: 24.1%
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (75/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (58/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (41/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (24/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (7/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) has defeated Brennus's Horse Archer!
Turn 144, 680 AD: While defending, your Praetorian 8 (Neapolis) has killed a Celtic Horse Archer!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer (7.20) vs Julius Caesar's Praetorian 13 (Neapolis) (9.20)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Combat Odds: 24.1%
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 13 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (75/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 13 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (58/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 13 (Neapolis) is hit for 17 (41/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 144, 680 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 13 (Neapolis) has defeated Brennus's Horse Archer!
Turn 144, 680 AD: While defending, your Praetorian 13 (Neapolis) has killed a Celtic Horse Archer!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Niels Bohr (Great Scientist) has been born in Addis Ababa (Zara Yaqob)!

Turn 145, 700 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 145, 700 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 145, 700 AD: Caput Mundi can hurry Praetorian for 2⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 14 turns.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Rome has grown to size 4.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Rome can hurry Catapult for 2⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 42 turns.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Neapolis can hurry Praetorian for 2⇴ with 28ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 22 turns.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Gilgamesh has 210 gold available for trade.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Hannibal has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Gilgamesh is willing to negotiate.
Turn 145, 700 AD: Saladin will trade Crab
Turn 145, 700 AD: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Gilgamesh
Turn 145, 700 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 14 (Neapolis) (8.00) vs Brennus's Horse Archer (2.23)
Turn 145, 700 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 145, 700 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 145, 700 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 25 (6/100HP)
Turn 145, 700 AD: Brennus's Horse Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 145, 700 AD: Julius Caesar's Praetorian 14 (Neapolis) has defeated Brennus's Horse Archer!
Turn 145, 700 AD: Your Praetorian 14 (Neapolis) has destroyed a Horse Archer!

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG022_AD0700_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

I guess this is my set then. If I had more time I would have taken a fight to use spy with Saladin instead.

I did not know that barb galleys could enter our borders.

 

[Htadus]

I guess this is my set then. If I had more time I would have taken a fight to use spy with Saladin instead. What do you mean by this? Please explain so we can figure if it is worth exploring.

I did not know that barb galleys could enter our borders.

Oh yeah they can? Learned it on a WOTM along time ago. I suppose it make sense considering there can be no walls over water tiles to stop these pirates.

Going to check the file.

 

[Folket]

Well, since stealing was cheaper from Saladin I had moved our spies to his city, but the point is moot now.

 

[Folket]

The advantage with Darius is that we can steal CoL/Bureaucracy instead of Feudalism/Bureaucracy.

 

[Folket]

I'm also confused as to why Saladin is cheaper. It seems like we are not getting bonus for our culture in GIFT. It seems like we needed to produce culture there before gifting. Very important lesson.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I'm also confused as to why Saladin is cheaper. It seems like we are not getting bonus for our culture in GIFT. It seems like we needed to produce culture there before gifting. Very important lesson.

How are you determining that Saladin is cheaper? If you are basing it on what it might have cost to steal the same tech from either Saladin or Darius, say priesthood, it might have been a few eps cheaper to steal from Saladin because we spent more eps on him than Darius. If you are looking at the ratios shown on the espionage screen at the moment Saladin might look better than Darius because of amounts spent. However, add 3000 eps to one of them and that ratio drops from over 100% to about 44%.

I did a quick test by using a great spy on Saladin and a great spy on Darius. To steal calendar (spy stationary for 1 turn) it cost 328 eps from Darius and 336 eps from Saladin. Darius was cheaper.
For both Darius and Saladin the cost was based on -20% for trade, -10% for Stationary 1 turn, and -44% for spending. The difference was in the distance modifier. Gift is 1 tile closer so the added cost for distance is 7% for Darius and 9% Saladin.

 

[Folket]

On which AI we spend EP dopes not matter. For the record. I used the great spy on Darius and Saladin is still cheaper.

 

[Htadus]

On which AI we spend EP dopes not matter. For the record. I used the great spy on Darius and Saladin is still cheaper.

Oh...that is because of different techs. You are not comparing equal techs. What you see on the screen is basically is the cheapest available tech to steal from each AI.

The cheapest tech Darius has is more expensive than the cheapest tech Sal has. So no harm done. Darius is the right AI.

Since I can not unpause the file. I can not check to see.

 

[leif erikson]

Not sure who can play next.

I am scheduled for day surgery on Friday and am currently home with my mother who is ill.

Getting older is not for the faint of heart...

 

[Folket]

Htadus seem to be right about Darius being cheaper. Still, we are not getting any bonus for our culture. We were probably to hasty in giving the city away. Given how slowly we expanded compared to the AI. There would have been AI cities close enough to give it away once we had setup our EPs.

But that is not the only thing that went wrong. I think we can learn a lot from a retrospect after this game.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Htadus seem to be right about Darius being cheaper. Still, we are not getting any bonus for our culture. We were probably to hasty in giving the city away. Given how slowly we expanded compared to the AI. There would have been AI cities close enough to give it away once we had setup our EPs.

But that is not the only thing that went wrong. I think we can learn a lot from a retrospect after this game. I agree.

We never had any culture in GIFT. We did not learn mysticism until after we gave the city to Darius. Also, Darius was out second choice. Originally we planned on giving it to Saladin, but he had 4 cities before we could gift it to him and would not accept it.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Not sure who can play next.

I am scheduled for day surgery on Friday and am currently home with my mother who is ill.

Getting older is not for the faint of heart...

Lief, hope everyone in your family is feeling better by next week.
You are the only one on the team who has not played. If we are following the order in which we played, Neil would be up after you followed by me. We have not heard from Neil in a while. Could you find out if Neil will be able to take a turn, otherwise I will swap with you.

 

[leif erikson]

Sent him a PM, if we don't hear in the next 24 hours or so, it is yours.

Thanks.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I am going to wait a few more hours to see if Neil checks in. If he does not here is my Plan plus a few questions.

Basic Plan not many details owing to fluid situation.
Trade Fish or Pig to Darius for Ivory (after stealing Feudalism)
Research: Drama
Steal from Darius: Feudalism, Riding, Currency, Code of Laws, Calendar, Metal Casting
Steal from Saladin: Meditation

When steal Feudalism adopt Vassalage.

Build queues:
Caput work boat->many Praetorians (maybe a forum if rng gods favor us.)
Neapolis (iron city) barracks->many Praetorians
Rome walls->many Catapults and War Elephants

Goals:
Repatriate Cumae and raze a Celt city or 2.

Some questions:
Do we adopt Hinduism if Saladin asks us to?
Do we adopt Confucianism if Darius asks us to?

Any consensus on how many turns to wait between begging? 20 turns, 25 turns, 30 turns? I ask because it has been 19 turns since we last begged from Ethiopia.

Folket, thank you for the signs showing when you begged.

 

[Htadus]

Green from me. Add a spear or two to that list. Saves a Preat or two.

 

[leif erikson]

Green from me as well.

All this war and lack of cities will make it difficult to meet the wonder building requirement. All the early wonders will be gone before we can think of building them. Any ideas how we handle that?

Survival is first on the list for now.

Good Luck!



edit - haven't heard a word from Neil.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Okay starting my turn.

 

[Folket]

I would prefer to steal bureaucracy and change to civil service.