[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam

Deckhand · Apr 2, 2018

Frederiksberg said:
If there was a requirement that we should be eligible for a victory vote it would have been stated clearly in the rules so I don't expect this interpretation to be the intention of the map maker.

Well, that is certainly debatable.
In hindsight, perhaps it should have been clearly stated. However, as these points are for AP Victory; I am surprised you would think you could score them without being eligible for AP victory.

sossos · Apr 2, 2018

Deckhand said:
@sossos,
Regarding
Is it your intent that this would block the eligibility for votes, thus 25 points maximum?
So even if all civs had the AP religion, no points could be scored for victory votes unless player has less than 75%.

Maybe. When I say "votes" I've assumed that voting is viable. The prerequisites are original design of civ 4, not mine.

The maximum score from AP votes is still 33 when all civ can vote for you.

Cactus Pete · Apr 3, 2018

Noble Zarkon · Apr 3, 2018

No matter whether you are leader or not, you can add up the votes you WOULD have IF a victory voting is proposed. This means:
1. you don't have to be leader, owner or builder to get those points.
2. AP needs to be built to calculate AP points, UN needs to be built to calculate UN points.
3. Diplomatic victory or its proposition is not a precondition to get those points from AP/UN votes. You don't need to wait till the proposal turn or voting turn.

The interpretation that we get 0 points is inconsistent with the above quotation, especially the bolded part, surely?

Deckhand · Apr 3, 2018

Wrote this last night regarding CP's question, but unable to post it.

sossos said:
The maximum score from AP votes is still 33 when all civ can vote for you.

Cactus Pete said:
EH?

Diplomatic Ministry: 25 points for being AP leader, 25 points for being UN leader, 50 points for diplomatic victory votes: 25 points * AP victory votes % / 75%+ 25 points* UN victory votes % / 67%

Points from AP victory votes = 25 * Votes% / 75%
You need 75% to win an AP victory, so if you squeak out an AP vote win, you would have 25 points [25 * 75% / 75%]
but if every civ in the world loved you (and none were eligible for victory).
--
Regarding

Diplomatic victory or its proposition is not a precondition to get those points from AP/UN votes. You don't need to wait till the proposal turn or voting turn.
The interpretation that we get 0 points is inconsistent with the above quotation, especially the bolded part, surely?

I see how you made that unfortunate conclusion and see that we should have been more explicit.
This is how I read that phrase:
[Actual] Diplomatic victory or its proposition [proposing the victory (as opposed to being able to propose it)] is not a precondition to get those points from AP/UN votes. You don't need to wait till the proposal turn or voting turn.
The context is about winning a Religious (Diplomatic) Victory. And that your [religious victory] votes would count for score even if you don't propose that victory. [But you only have religious victory votes if you are able to propose it.]

---
If I had been reading your thread all along, I would have been put in an awkward position. I don't think I would have corrected your assumptions. It would be aiding a particular team. If any team had asked early in the competition, we would have made the clarification in the maintenance thread. I don't think we should do so now, as that could aid the other teams at your expense.
I haven't read other threads to see is they also made this misinterpretation. I will do so as I have time. But won't set them straight unless they ask.

Deckhand · Apr 3, 2018

Thinking more about this, don't make any changes immediately. Plan what you will do (assuming rule stands).
I will check other team threads and if all (or many) made the same misinterpretation, then fault is with how rule was stated and we should be open to modifying it. But if no one else did, then it stands.

Frederiksberg · Apr 3, 2018

We asked about AP points a long time ago and got this answer:

sossos said:
The AP victory votes % can be obtained as below:
Go to "victory conditions->member" screen, you can see how many percentage of votes you would get if a AP victory voting is proposed. You don't have to win by AP victory.

This is pretty clear to me. The number on the members screen is to be used in the formula. And it's stated explicitly that AP victory is not an issue. Nowhere is it mentioned that the AP victory vote must be possible.

Frederiksberg · Apr 3, 2018

Deckhand said:
Thinking more about this, don't make any changes immediately. Plan what you will do (assuming rule stands).
I will check other team threads and if all (or many) made the same misinterpretation, then fault is with how rule was stated and we should be open to modifying it. But if no one else did, then it stands.

How about asking the other teams in the maintenance thread? Then we can go with the majority decision. IMO the worst case is if a team misinterprets the rules and is unable to fulfill the point requirement after they have finished the game.

leif erikson · Apr 4, 2018

The rule was adjusted and that is posted in the maintenance thread.

Cactus Pete · Apr 4, 2018

So, we were not the only team confused by text?

Deckhand · Apr 4, 2018

Cactus Pete said:
So, we were not the only team confused by text?

I think that is true.
Other teams were planning on (at least the possibility of) 58 points. Wasn't completely clear to me if they were planning on AP Victory possibility. But in their summaries they did not address voting. Seemed like at least one and maybe all had your interpretation.

Frederiksberg said:
IMO the worst case is if a team misinterprets the rules and is unable to fulfill the point requirement after they have finished the game.

This was fairly compelling.

Frederiksberg · Apr 5, 2018

Thanks to Deckhand and sossos for handling the issue and finding a compromise :goodjob:

It means that we have 8 points less than we originally expected and the question is if we want to make the victory vote possible. It may be possible by gifting Tao cities to our vassals but it's complicated by the fact that we can't gift cities with wonders. The alternative is to go ahead as planned, perhaps spending an extra turn to finish Versailles. The major uncertainty is the exact amount of culture we will get from the culture espionage operation so we would under all circumstances need to stop and count points after this has been done.

Frederiksberg · Apr 10, 2018

I'm going on vacation Wednesday and should be able to play Thursday. There is supposed to be WiFi where I'm heading (Northern Thailand).

The plan is in this post with the addition that the culture operation is the first thing done in T108 and the save is posted after that for review and point count. I will also wait with accepting any possible capitulation from Churchill in case it is close and we need to play an additional turn or two to get Versailles, eliminate Churchill and maybe even do some manipulation of the AP vote. I suggest we build some missionaries in case we need to do this.

Noble Zarkon · Apr 10, 2018

GREEN from me.

Note this post in the maintenance thread:-

A reminder: you are not permitted to make any changes in your game after winning before saving and submitting.

leif erikson · Apr 10, 2018

Green as well.

Enjoy your vacation. :thumbsup:

Cactus Pete · Apr 12, 2018

Plan looks thorough. Appreciate the effort. You might consider moving 2 knights in Orleans onto a northern galley after it unloads on ice hill, with the idea of providing a bit more final firepower for Nottingham, even if they attack from the sea.

Green here.

Frederiksberg · Apr 12, 2018

Something came up and I have to postpone playing until tomorrow.

Frederiksberg · Apr 13, 2018

Getting late here in Thailand. Had to pause half way through the espionage operation. We have 35080 culture points in Spy City and can get about 8-10K more but if we have to wait a few turns for Versailles it might make sense to delay and wait for the spies to have higher stationary bonus. I have posted the save for comments.

>>SAVE<<

Spoiler Log :

leif erikson · Apr 14, 2018

Looking good, nice job with England! :thumbsup:

If we do not want to wait, could whip Versailles in a turn or two.

Hope you are enjoying your vacation!

Cactus Pete · Apr 14, 2018

Well, we're certainly in good shape to conquer the world. As for the pros and cons of waiting, I don't have the understanding to offer any comment.

For my own education, I would like to understand how we know how many culture points there are in Spy City. Also, didn't our culture plan involve creation and utilization of a Great Artist?

[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam

Procrastination at its finest

King

Deity

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Procrastination at its finest

Procrastination at its finest

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Procrastination at its finest

Deity

Deity

Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Similar threads