Slavery and Overpopulation

[repentance7]

So in my city of Hamburg, I have a TON of unhappiness and a TON of citizens refusing to work (20, to be exact). I'm also attempting to complete Versailles in that city, which would take another 19 turns. So I thought to myself: why not adopt Slavery, sacrifice these citizens refusing to work, reduce city population size, and complete Versailles faster? However, upon adopting Slavery, the game told me I need 11 citizens to rush Versailles and I only have 8.

.... I don't get it ._.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

What's not to get? Versailles is pretty expensive => a great amount of pop needs to be sacrificed to finish it.
While I'm at it, rushing Wonders is more inefficient than rushing units or buildings, AFAIK most people prefer to whip something else in a way that lots of overflow gets applied to the Wonder they want to build.

Also, congratulations on your first post and welcome to CivFanatics!

 

[lymond]

First, welcome to CFC!!!!

Second, it sounds to me that you are very new to the game.

The fact is that Slavery is one of, if not THE,, most powerful mechanics in the game. So hearing you did not adopt Slavery until a city had 20 unhappy citizens is beyond mind-boggling.

So here's a rundown:

1) Each unhappy citizen costs maintenance. You are paying for them to literally do nothing.
2) Each citizen is worth 30 hammers (normal speed) when whipped, which can be used to finish buildings or units
3) The hammers from a whipped citizen(s) are applied to the current build in the production queue to complete that item
4) If the total hammers from whipped citizens exceed the total production cost of an item - any accumulated hammers into said item, those hammers are turned into Overflow (OF) which can be used in a subsequent build (this is very powerful). It basically allows you to turn food into hammers.
5) There's a penalty to hammers when you whip an item on the first turn of the build
6) Wonders receive a whipping penalty in general, so it is not advisable to whip wonders usually except if you just need to make sure you get it in time.
7) The reason why Versailles needs 11 citizens is that it needs approx. 330 hammers to complete the wonder (11x30)

So you very much want to run Slavery almost as soon as you get BW, and you generally don't want your cities to be unhappy, although it is fine to let a city grow a bit unhappy temporarily so that you can whip those unhappy citizens. Unhappy citizens are free production when whipped, but otherwise do nothing for you but cost you.

Ofc, you also want to find ways to get more happiness as well such as Hereditary Rule civic and resources. DO NOT let your cities grow to 20 unhappy citizens much less 1 or even 2. Either whip off those citizen asap or use methods to curb growth such as adjusting tiles or running specialists..

Lastly, I assuming you have a lot to learn about the game. I recommend reading up and spending more time over on the Strategy & Tips forum.

 

[Infantry#14]

Something to add to previous post:

Production buildings like forge and factory enhance the number of whipped hammers. Also, civ specific trait like industrious/organized/creative greatly increase whipped hammers by 100%.

So you may want to whip and chop some wood if you are industrious and is about 1 turn to complete the forge. Those hammers will overflow into the next building.

 

[PhantomRaptor]

Do you have access to Universal Suffrage and have a lot of money? US can also rush production but with a fairly hefty payment in gold, especially for wonders. No unhappiness penalty afterwards either.

If not, then you will want to restrict cities' growth in the future - if you don't want to micromanage everything then use the 'Avoid Growth' button in the city screen to prevent unhappy citizens altogether, or whip them off.

Basically just seconding what lymond said And welcome, fellow new CFC user!

 

[lymond]

@Infantry - I found your post rather confusing. I think I know what you are trying to say, but I think it would be rather misleading information for a new player.

@Phantom - ha...I think the main issue for OP at the moment is running 20 unhappy citizens in a city. US won't help that. In fact the OP probably needs a bunch more help than just whipping. Also, I don't like the Avoid Growth button at all. It's a crutch that can cause problems later. There are better ways to manage growth without the potential to forget about the button and not grow at all.

 

[PhantomRaptor]

@lymond - True, now I think about it it'll only solve the Versailles part, ha. I'm really not awake today. I suppose I do check my cities quite regularly, especially after having built something, so the Avoid Growth button works for me, maybe not for other people. Just sharing my strats.

*is wondering where my welcome is*

 

[lymond]

*is wondering where my welcome is*

Hey! It's March now....you are old news!

WELCOME TO CFC!!!

 

[Old Hippy]

welcome to CFC,
a handy hint, mouse over the rush tab in city screen, and it will tell you how many citizens are needed, before changing to slavery, it avoids surprises

 

[Osbiath]

If you're wondering why it says you only have 8 citizens, when you have a population of 20 or so, it is because you can only spend, at most, half of your total population in a whip. So a city with pop 4 can only whip up to two citizens worth of hammers. Or something like that.

 

[repentance7]

Wow...this is the first time I've received a welcome message in a forums without having to post in the "Introduce Yourself" section LOL thanks you guys xD

Yes, it's true, I'm new to this game: I just bought it like two days ago when it was on sale on Steam.

I didn't adopt Slavery early cuz I didn't want to be a mean slaver driver LOL but from what you guys have told me, it does sound pretty useful.

In the matter of controlling city size by adjusting tiles/running specialist, when I check the city overview, all available tiles are being worked...I don't think I can adjust that any more lol. Speaking of all tiles being worked, I'm also running out of food due to a huge city size...this might ALSO be the reason why whenever I add a specialist, my city goes into starvation.

Ending note: this game is way harder than Civ 5 =.="

 

[joanne]

I didn't adopt Slavery early cuz I didn't want to be a mean slaver driver LOL but from what you guys have told me, it does sound pretty useful.

Slavery is pretty freakin' awesome! Nowhere else on the internet can you say that openly and not get banned

So break out those whips and dispense some cruel oppression

 

[damerell]

So in my city of Hamburg, I have a TON of unhappiness and a TON of citizens refusing to work (20, to be exact). I'm also attempting to complete Versailles in that city, which would take another 19 turns. So I thought to myself: why not adopt Slavery, sacrifice these citizens refusing to work, reduce city population size, and complete Versailles faster? However, upon adopting Slavery, the game told me I need 11 citizens to rush Versailles and I only have 8.

Everyone seems to have missed the actual question here, although Osbiath came close to it. If the city has a population of at least 20, why can't the OP whip at least 10 citizens away?

I think the answer to that is that there are not actually 20 unhappy citizens, and the total population of the city is 16 or 17. I think this because it would be extremely difficult to have the productive population of a city grow 40 surplus food for 20 unhappy citizens, short of food corps; it seems much more plausible that the population is lower.

OP: could you post a screenie of the city screen, or better yet, a save?

 

[repentance7]

Everyone seems to have missed the actual question here, although Osbiath came close to it. If the city has a population of at least 20, why can't the OP whip at least 10 citizens away?

I think the answer to that is that there are not actually 20 unhappy citizens, and the total population of the city is 16 or 17. I think this because it would be extremely difficult to have the productive population of a city grow 40 surplus food for 20 unhappy citizens, short of food corps; it seems much more plausible that the population is lower.

OP: could you post a screenie of the city screen, or better yet, a save?

You're right, I just realized my mistake: I don't actually have twenty citizens refusing to work, I have 20 unhappiness =.=" I mistook the amount of unhappiness for amount of citizens refusing to work lol. Where can I see the amount of citizens I have available?

Also, my score is going stagnant. Over the course of twenty or so turns, my score has only grown by like 200 while other civs (particularly Mansa Musa and Mehmed) have grown by like a thousand. What are the factors that influence score and how can I directly decrease other civ's score (by, say warfare)?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

You're right, I just realized my mistake: I don't actually have twenty citizens refusing to work, I have 20 unhappiness =.=" I mistook the amount of unhappiness for amount of citizens refusing to work lol. Where can I see the amount of citizens I have available?

On the map it's the number in the left circle (Star if Capital) of the city bar, in the City screen it should be right to the city's name above the growth and production bars.

Also, my score is going stagnant. Over the course of twenty or so turns, my score has only grown by like 200 while other civs (particularly Mansa Musa and Mehmed) have grown by like a thousand. What are the factors that influence score and how can I directly decrease other civ's score (by, say warfare)?

If you hover the cursor over your name in the scoreboard it should give you a breakdown of the factors. They are size, population, Wonders and technology. As for decreasing your rivals scores, taking some of their most important cities should make quite a dent, although I think I read somewhere that technology is the most important factor.
Also you should note that score isn't the end all be all, it only gives you a rough idea of where you stand.

 

[KinesongPayaso]

build a warrior(or some low Hammer Cost Unit/Building) for 1 turn
shift-click on Versailles
whip it
this will direct the Hammer Overflow to Versailles