So How Bad Is It Overseas?

Arwon said:
That's when the road safety gap looks like it began to really emerge, and also likely when the inequality that began increasing substantially across the 1980s started killing more.
Click to expand...

Did Australia get a version of Rogernomics?

NZ and Aussie were very similar up to the 70s and we fell behind.

Rogernomics was a complete lie and the promised benefits never really arrived and the country kinda recovered by late 90s.

Old system lead to stagnation though hence why we got Rogernomics.

Vaguely remember Keating and Bob Hawke iirc?
 
I actually work with people who make $250k and it is very much fitting with middle class, although those people live in the most expensive locations.
 
Denkt said:
I actually work with people who make $250k and it is very much fitting with middle class, although those people live in the most expensive locations.
Click to expand...

That's not middle class but probably top 5%.
 
Probably much easier than people think to reach that salary, like just get a job at a tech company in an expensive area, which may only require getting a bachelore degree, if I could get a job at such company I suspect a lot of people could. Atleast it is much easier today than it was in past to reach those very high salaries.

Much of USA productivity growth is due to the IT sector, which is probably the most productive sector in USA, thus also where you going to find those salaries, many other sectors have seen below average productivity growth as the average is obviously based on the growth of all sectors, so some like IT growing above average means other have to underpeform.
 
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Denkt said:
I actually work with people who make $250k and it is very much fitting with middle class, although those people live in the most expensive locations.
Click to expand...
I live there, too.
 
Throughout my travels I saw the most poverty in Peru, Cambodia, Nepal, and arguably southcentral LA/Compton.

I'm including the last one because it made such a big impact on me, and it was such a huge contrast from the glitz of some other parts of LA, some not that far away..

The poverty I saw in Peru, Cambodia, and Nepal was interesting, because on one hand you could look around and see some of the shacks some people lived in.. with large families having to deal with that.. most adults likely working long hours every day, to provide for their families, often in brutal conditions (the heat, lack of safety standards, etc).. There was a severe lack of infrastructure and many other issues, and yet.. I saw more smiling and seemingly happy people in those places than I see on an average walk in North America, which has much higher standards of living. When I look at people on an average walk in Toronto (for example), I see many more grumpy, anxiety-ridden, etc. people. This is all anecdotal, but it's left an impression on me.
 
People tend to be much more lonely in developed places, maybe because there is less reasons to depend on each others for survival. Go to like scandinavia and you probably find some of the loneliest people you can think of. But I would be careful thinking the people in those poor countries as particular happy, I suspect they may probably are less happier than people living in the developed countries, looking happy and being happy is two different things. Some of the countries the average person could have it worse than like the bottom 10% in the developed countries.

Single person households in EU

World in data about living alone
 
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Denkt said:
People tend to be much more lonely in developed places, maybe because there is less reasons to depend on each others for survival. Go to like scandinavia and you probably find some of the loneliest people you can think of. But I would be careful thinking the people in those poor countries as particular happy, I suspect they may probably are less happier than people living in the developed countries, looking happy and being happy is two different things. Some of the countries the average person could have it worse than like the bottom 10% in the developed countries.

Single person households in EU

World in data about living alone
Click to expand...

BTW we ordered a hoard game from Sweden on the 14th.

Arrived today.
 
Zardnaar said:
Did Australia get a version of Rogernomics?

NZ and Aussie were very similar up to the 70s and we fell behind.

Rogernomics was a complete lie and the promised benefits never really arrived and the country kinda recovered by late 90s.

Old system lead to stagnation though hence why we got Rogernomics.

Vaguely remember Keating and Bob Hawke iirc?
Click to expand...

That's them. Hawke and Keating did similar things in Australia. This is still looked upon as an achievement by some Laborites in Australia.

We also had a mining boom that tided us over so we didn't feel the negatives from it quite as harshly as NZ maybe, despite gross economic mismanagement under Howard and beyond.

But four decades of that and state capacity is severely degraded.
 
Gorbles said:
That'd put you comfortably in the top 1%, in the UK.
Click to expand...
UK probably going to be cheaper to live in than those places, although UK productivity per hour seems significantly lower than USA and slightly under euro area average using the OCED numbers for 2022.
 
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2022 Individual Income Percentiles for the United States​

The following chart shows the change in every income percentile year over year.

As a warning, you can't compare the brackets directly. Changes are only suggestive – note that the workforce can grow or shrink, and people can move between brackets (and into and out of the workforce).

Spoiler :

Individual Income Percentile20222021Absolute IncreasePercentage Change
1%$0$0$00%
2%$0$0$00%
3%$3$52-$49-94.23%
4%$1,000$1,040-$40-3.85%
5%$2,040$2,200-$160-7.27%
6%$3,500$3,510-$10-0.28%
7%$4,950$4,990-$40-0.80%
8%$6,000$6,000$00.00%
9%$7,200$7,171$290.40%
10%$8,801$8,500$3013.54%
11%$10,000$10,000$00.00%
12%$11,002$10,703$2992.79%
13%$12,168$12,000$1681.40%
14%$14,000$13,000$1,0007.69%
15%$15,000$14,311$6894.81%
16%$15,600$15,001$5993.99%
17%$17,000$16,000$1,0006.25%
18%$18,020$17,020$1,0005.88%
19%$19,810$18,010$1,8009.99%
20%$20,000$19,404$5963.07%
21%$20,505$20,000$5052.53%
22%$22,000$20,104$1,8969.43%
23%$23,000$21,306$1,6947.95%
24%$24,000$22,400$1,6007.14%
25%$25,000$23,357$1,6437.03%
26%$25,000$24,003$9974.15%
27%$25,901$25,000$9013.60%
28%$27,000$25,050$1,9507.78%
29%$28,000$26,002$1,9987.68%
30%$29,052$27,003$2,0497.59%
31%$30,000$28,000$2,0007.14%
32%$30,000$29,000$1,0003.45%
33%$30,100$30,000$1000.33%
34%$31,500$30,000$1,5005.00%
35%$32,282$30,199$2,0836.90%
36%$33,794$31,385$2,4097.68%
37%$35,000$32,111$2,8899.00%
38%$35,002$33,300$1,7025.11%
39%$35,905$34,830$1,0753.09%
40%$37,000$35,000$2,0005.71%
41%$38,001$35,700$2,3016.45%
42%$39,363$36,400$2,9638.14%
43%$40,000$37,671$2,3296.18%
44%$40,015$38,879$1,1362.92%
45%$41,000$40,000$1,0002.50%
46%$42,000$40,001$1,9995.00%
47%$43,016$40,600$2,4165.95%
48%$44,992$42,000$2,9927.12%
49%$45,010$43,000$2,0104.67%
50%$46,001$44,225$1,7764.02%
51%$47,400$45,001$2,3995.33%
52%$48,766$46,000$2,7666.01%
53%$50,000$47,200$2,8005.93%
54%$50,002$48,473$1,5293.15%
55%$50,351$50,000$3510.70%
56%$51,704$50,002$1,7023.40%
57%$52,848$50,402$2,4464.85%
58%$54,620$51,850$2,7705.34%
59%$55,110$52,700$2,4104.57%
60%$56,536$54,100$2,4364.50%
61%$58,200$55,028$3,1725.76%
62%$60,000$56,206$3,7946.75%
63%$60,012$58,002$2,0103.47%
64%$60,900$60,000$9001.50%
65%$62,306$60,010$2,2963.83%
66%$64,600$61,000$3,6005.90%
67%$65,156$62,601$2,5554.08%
68%$67,115$64,886$2,2293.44%
69%$69,966$65,400$4,5666.98%
70%$70,165$67,402$2,7634.10%
71%$72,004$69,887$2,1173.03%
72%$74,568$70,213$4,3556.20%
73%$75,500$72,281$3,2194.45%
74%$78,001$75,000$3,0014.00%
75%$80,002$75,815$4,1875.52%
76%$81,494$78,152$3,3424.28%
77%$85,000$80,011$4,9896.24%
78%$86,674$82,008$4,6665.69%
79%$90,002$85,001$5,0015.88%
80%$92,200$87,600$4,6005.25%
81%$95,951$90,055$5,8966.55%
82%$100,000$93,200$6,8007.30%
83%$100,480$97,027$3,4533.56%
84%$103,316$100,012$3,3043.30%
85%$108,026$102,200$5,8265.70%
86%$112,000$107,000$5,0004.67%
87%$117,300$111,300$6,0005.39%
88%$121,537$118,000$3,5373.00%
89%$127,000$122,485$4,5153.69%
90%$132,676$129,181$3,4952.71%
91%$140,810$136,000$4,8103.54%
92%$150,028$145,025$5,0033.45%
93%$158,000$151,660$6,3404.18%
94%$170,301$160,512$9,7896.10%
95%$186,006$175,300$10,7066.11%
96%$205,000$196,006$8,9944.59%
97%$232,000$220,005$11,9955.45%
98%$280,100$259,608$20,4927.89%
99%$401,622$357,552$44,07012.33%



dqydj.com

Average, Median, Top 1% Individual Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, top 1% and all individual income percentiles in 2022. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.
dqydj.com dqydj.com
 
Tee Kay said:
That's them. Hawke and Keating did similar things in Australia. This is still looked upon as an achievement by some Laborites in Australia.

We also had a mining boom that tided us over so we didn't feel the negatives from it quite as harshly as NZ maybe, despite gross economic mismanagement under Howard and beyond.

But four decades of that and state capacity is severely degraded.
Click to expand...

Kevin Bloody Wilson taught me everything I know about Australian 80's internal politics!! That and Santa Clause.
 
According to those numbers, a pretty normal programmer in USA (maybe around $130k salary) would be like top 10% and make 3 times the median income, that seems a bit extreme, not the salary but the fact there is such huge disperency between median and a programmer salary? If those numbers also include stuff like stock money it could be even more extreme.
 
Denkt said:
According to those numbers, a pretty normal programmer in USA (maybe around $130k salary) would be like top 10% and make 3 times the median income, that seems a bit extreme, not the salary but the fact there is such huge disperency between median and a programmer salary? If those numbers also include stuff like stock money it could be even more extreme.
Click to expand...

I don't care to much about jobs like that. Not really tge biggest problem.
 
Programmers are in demand atm. Good ones cost more. Retail jobs that paid $8/hour two years ago now pay $15-20/hr. because they are in demand. Median income collects the wages of both skilled and unskilled workers. Programmers are a special set of skilled workers, there is no relationship between the two numbers. just like between the median income and postal workers, architects, attorneys, restaurant servers, or call center folks. Some are higher and some lower.
 
Those super expensive areas where you are "middle class at 250k" are super duper liveable at 60k if you're single. I know because when you factor my free rent into my unemployment (government safety net we supposedly don't have!) that's my income level. Property here is expensive, expect to pay $600k to $2 million for a house depending on location. But for everything else, two people earning 60k each, cooking at home (which I don't really do) and keeping to a budget (which I also don't do) can provide a middle class lifestyle for a family of 4. That's here in the Bay Area.
 
Seems crazy people would work for just $8h, bottom 10% compensation in USA is like $16h with wage component being $13, which is still low. Given how easy it seems to start with like $100k salary or close to it nowdays, I would expect people to make a lot more than that.

https://www.bls.gov/ecec/factsheets/compensation-percentile-estimates.htm
Birdjaguar said:
Programmers are in demand atm. Good ones cost more. Retail jobs that paid $8/hour two years ago now pay $15-20/hr. because they are in demand. Median income collects the wages of both skilled and unskilled workers. Programmers are a special set of skilled workers, there is no relationship between the two numbers. just like between the median income and postal workers, architects, attorneys, restaurant servers, or call center folks. Some are higher and some lower.
Click to expand...
You can become a programmer in like a few years, maybe even less, it is not a high skilled job in itself and much of the stuff you can find on the internet. So if such job is worth like $100k, I'd assume a lot more people should be making such salaries. That seems true for a lot of higher paying jobs, they don't require particular much skills, not maybe more than could be learnt in like a year or so.
 
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Denkt said:
Seems crazy people would work for just $8h, bottom 10% compensation in USA is like $16h with wage component being $13, which is still low. Given how easy it seems to start with like $100k salary or close to it nowdays, I would expect people to make a lot more than that.

https://www.bls.gov/ecec/factsheets/compensation-percentile-estimates.htm

You can become a programmer in like a few years, maybe even less, it is not a high skilled job in itself and much of the stuff you can find on the internet. So if such job is worth like $100k, I'd assume a lot more people should be making such salaries.
Click to expand...

And how do you become a programmer with no social support and Uber expensive tertiary? And $7.50 an hour minimum wage?

He'll I grew up rough with decent social security net. Owning a PC was similar to booking a flight to the moon.

Bought first PC age 24 iirc.
 
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