Some (kind of noobish) questions

[JBossch]

Hey all. I played a ton of Civ4 but I am still kind of learning on Civ5, and BNW definitely threw me for a loop. I play King difficulty, otherwise standards settings, and I tend toward war-mongering, though I am trying to learn some of the other vic types. A few questions here in various categories. I still kind of think of Civ5 in terms of comparisons to Civ4, so feel free to talk to me like I'm stupid. Thanks for help with any or all of these.

Tourism: Any point to it if you aren't trying for a culture victory? If any other vic is the goal, I should just make sure I have enough culture to keep from coming under another Civ's tourism influence right?

Economy: So, roads cost maintenance, but connecting cities to my cap gives gold. How long does a road have to be before its economically counterproductive (meaning it costs more than the trade route to the cap brings in), assuming we disregard the other benefits of roads?

Diplo: I should have taken a screen-shot, but earlier I asked Wu Zeitan what deal would make OBs possible and she said it wasn't possible. Then I offered a couple luxuries on my end and asked what would make it possible again and she counter-proposed the same deal but with one more luxury. Is that a bug or what? In Civ4 if they said it wasn't possible it meant that NOTHING you could currently offer would get the deal. It didn't mean propose something and I will come back at you.

Also, I continue to be baffled by so much of the conversation options in diplo. If a Civ denounces me or turns hostile, what difference does it make if I say 'Very well' or if I say 'You will pay for this in time'? Any difference?

War: I just learned about the trick of bringing workers along and repairing the improvements I pillage so I can pillage them all over again. Seems like an exploit and something that will be patched out, but this is standard practice for war-mongering right?

Thanks!

 

[joncnunn]

Tourism: You need your own tourism to avoid unhappiness penalties from Ideology.
Your culture only matters to avoid losing the game to an AI attempting culture victory.

Roads: Early rule is the destination city should be at least the same size as the new road tiles needed. (Some civs have bonuses in this regards and also after your capital reaches size 10 it also increases all trade routes slightly.)

Dip: She's not including increasing GPT.

AI insults: None at all.
AI bragging about having bullied a city state under your impression, if you say "Very Well", you lose 20 points influence with the city state. "You will pay" causes a noted red text with that AI, however that has never reduced value of future trade deals.

 

[chazzycat]

Tourism: You need your own tourism to avoid unhappiness penalties from Ideology.
Your culture only matters to avoid losing the game to an AI attempting culture victory.

Culture doesn't just matter for losing the game...it also plays into ideology unhappiness.

Your tourism vs. the AI culture = your level of influence on them
AI tourism vs. your culture = their level of influence on you

If your level of influence on them is equal to their level on you, you will avoid the unhappiness. So it's really a combination of tourism and culture.

 

[JBossch]

@ jon and chazzy:

Very helpful, thanks so much. So for tourism, the unhappiness penalty only comes into play once ideologies get chosen? And only if mine is different from the AI that is overwhelming me?

 

[chazzycat]

Yes, it only comes into play once ideologies are chosen. Both parties need to have chosen an ideology, and they need to be different, for that system to kick in. Once those criteria are satisfied, then the delta between the levels of influence between those 2 players start causing unhappiness (unless the levels are equal, of course).

 

[ButSam]

Also, note that most (but not all) of the tourism-generating options give you a bigger culture-generating alternative. For example, you can use a Great Writer to write a treatise (large one-time culture bonus that also counts toward social policy), or do the standard great work thing for a mixed culture-tourism bonus...you can use an archaeologist for a culture/tourism mix, or for a larger culture bonus...etc.

There are a few exceptions, such as Eiffel Tower (and other tourism-generating/enhancing wonders), and going from memory I think the options for a great musician all generate tourism...but in many circumstances, you are given a choice at the time of use, so if you don't want the tourism, you can take another option.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Culture doesn't just matter for losing the game...it also plays into ideology unhappiness.

Your tourism vs. the AI culture = your level of influence on them
AI tourism vs. your culture = their level of influence on you

If your level of influence on them is equal to their level on you, you will avoid the unhappiness. So it's really a combination of tourism and culture.

It also takes into account influence by other civs of your ideology. So if you are Civ A and took Freedom, Civ B took Autocracy and has 2 points of influence on you, and Civ C took Freedom and has 2 points of influence on you, your people will be content with Freedom as it averages out to 0 ideological pressure.

 

[Smith of Lie]

Ok, since the thread lends itself well to what I was meaning to ask for some time, I'll add my own, noobish, questions.

1. Unit Maintenance How do I learn of cost per unit? I am well aware I can see lump sum of unit maintenance cost when hovering over GPT in UI, but I'd love to know how much GTP deleting a unit will save me before making decision or being able to count how many new units I can pump out without going into less than satisfactory fiscal situation. So far I gathered that the later into the game tech-wise, the more expensive the units are. But what are the exact values?

2. Diplomacy Modifiers I have noticed that positive (green) and negative (red) diplomacy modifiers come in bright red/green and dark green/red variants. I inferred that the lighter the text the more fresh the modifier is, and the darker the text, the closer it is to expire, I am not sure however wheather that is true. Could someone correct me if I am wrong on that one?

 

[VainoValkea]

Smith of Lie, I'm not sure if you can explicitly see per-unit costs but it's typically somewhere between 4-7 gold per turn per unit in the late game.

As for the diplomatic modifiers, darker modifier means a lesser modifier, brighter one means a stronger one. Bright green text comes from very favorable trades and Declarations of Friendship, for example, while the darker green can come from something minor like having an embassy with them. Conversely, bright red modifiers come from really nasty stuff - being a warmonger, denouncing them for example, while dark red from lesser stuff like you just sitting on some really good land.

 

[Smith of Lie]

Smith of Lie, I'm not sure if you can explicitly see per-unit costs but it's typically somewhere between 4-7 gold per turn per unit in the late game.

Oh. Shame. I hoped for some kind of extrapolate-able rule. Like for example "Up till Medieval XGP per unit, then from Industrail X". Or some such. Hell, even a list of each single unit GP/turn cost would be help.

Have no one ever mined for such data in files?

 

[_invy_]

Short google search....

edit: found it on Civ wiki

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Mathematics_of_Civilization_V

 

[Browd]

This is from vanilla: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Mathematics_of_Civilization_V#Unit_maintenance

Also, you can go through the motions of deleting a unit (it will ask you to confirm) and it will show what gpt savings you will enjoy if you delete the unit.

 

[RonMar]

There is no need for you to calculate the current maintenance cost per unit.

Go to the Economic Overview (via the scroll) and hover over Units in the left hand column. It will give you the current cost per unit on the current turn.