[GS] Spring 2019 Update: what do you want to see in the next patch?

[acluewithout]

Late Antarctic Summer Patch is out. It's awesome. If fixes a lot of things. Breaks a couple of things. And we finally have Map Tacks.

So, what should FXS do for the next patch?

To be clear, please try to only post ideas that are suitable for a patch. Expansions, DLC etc, can go somewhere else.

...And if you're going to talk about the AI, please try to be really specific about the behavior you want changed rather than just "better at combat" or "not stupid".

I’m very interested to hear people's thoughts. Who knows, maybe FXS will pick up some ideas from this thread.

For what it’s worth, and to get some discussion going, here is my list done "patch note" style. Sorry, it's not short...

Industrial

• Industrial Zone. Add +1 Adjacency from improved strategic resources (so improved horses provides +1, and an improved Iron Mine provides +2 - i.e. +1 for Iron, +1 for the Mine).
  • Hansa. Receives additional +1 Great Merchant Point.
• Workshop. +1 Housing, and +1 Food to all Camps and (after you research Mass Production) +1 Production to all Pastures in this City (in addition to other benefits).
• Factory. + Production equal to current IZ adjacency (instead of Coal Plant). Additional +4 production when powered.
  • Electronics Factory. Culture Bonus reduced to +1 but now Regional Boost (all Cities within 6 tiles).
• Powerplants. Coal and Oil Powerplants both provide +6 Regional Production Boost (no adjacency boost for Coal Plant). Nuclear Powerplant provides +8 Production and +2 Science as Regional Boost. All Powerplants provide all Cities within 6 tiles with +1 Amenities.
• [New] Tech Hub. Tier 3 IZ Building, unlocks at Telecommunications. Allows stacking of Regional Bonuses. Each District in this City also gains +1 Production and +1 Science when Tech hub is powered. Cost 600, Maintenance 5, Power Requirement 4. (Uses Research Lab graphics.)
• Library. Reduce Science to +1.
• University. Reduce base Science to +2 science; +2 citizen slots instead of +1.
  • Madras. +3 science, plus +2 citizen slots (instead of +1), otherwise unchanged.
• Research Lab. Bonus is now +2 Science, plus additional +6 Science when fully powered. Provides +2 Citizen Slots, instead of +1.
• Stock Exchange. Additionally, each Stock Exchange in your Empire provides +5% Production to all Projects in your Empire (max +50%). Stock Exchange also provides +2 Citizen Slots, instead of +1.
• Ancient Walls. Unchanged, but renamed “Walls”.
• Medieval Walls. Changed to “Medieval Castle” (which also provides Medieval Walls). Provides +1 Housing, +10% production bonus for Anti-Cav and Siege units, +100 Outer Defence, and +10CS to this City and +5CS to all Cities within 6 tiles. (Uses Medieval Wall graphics.)
• Renaissance Walls. Changed to “Renaissance Palace” (which also provides Renaissance Walls). Provides additional +1 Housing, +10% production bonus for Anti-Cav and Siege units, +100 Outer Defence, and +10CS to this City and +5CS to all Cities within 6 tiles. (Uses Renaissance Wall graphics.)
  • Tsikhe. Unchanged, but becomes replacement for Renaissance Palace.
• Fort. Provides ZOC and +1 Production when worked. Cannot build a Fort adjacent to another Fort.
• Military Engineer. Military Engineer can build Roads without using a Builder Charge (1 Iron) in addition to building Railways, and can speed production of Sea Walls and District Repairs. Military Engineer required to build Offshore Oil Rig.
• Railways and Canals. A City connected to a Capital City by Rail receives +10% Gold and Production. Industrial Zones gain adjacency (+1) for each neighbouring Canal Tile.
• Entertainment / Waterpark. Entertainment and Waterpark Districts no longer require Population to build (i.e. like Aqueducts etc).
• Sewers, Neighborhoods, Food Markets and Shopping Centres. Sewers provide +2 Housing, and +1 additional Housing for each Neighorhood and Aqueduct in this City. Neighborhoods provide +1 adjacecy to Harbours, Commercial Hubs and Industrial Zones. Food Markets and Shopping Malls are now City Centre Buildings and can only be built in Cities with a Sewer. Food Market provides +5 Food (up from +3). Costs of Food Market and Shopping Mall are halved.
• Farms. After you research Irrigation, Farms provide +1 Housing (not +0.5) if next to a river.
• Housing. Housing negatives to growth only begin to apply once City reaches housing cap, not before.

Goverments

• Monarchy. Legacy Bonus changed to +1 Amenity for each Castle Level (+1 or +2) and Camp, and farms adjacent to a Castle or Encampment provide +1 Production.
  
• Digital Democracy no longer reduces combat strength of units; instead, unit maintenance is increased by +1 for all units, War Weariness is +150% and you cannot declare Surprise War.
• Maintenance. Second, Third and Fourth Government Tiers each increase the Gold Maintenance for all Districts and Third and Fourth Tier Governments increase the required Maintenance for all Cities on your Home Continent.
• Fourth Tier Governments. All Tier Four Governments can access Wild Card Policy Cards as their equivalent Tier Three Government, eg both Digital Democracy and Democracy can slot New Deal.
• Loyalty. Tier 2, 3 and 4 Governments provide all Cities with a Govenor respectively +1, +2 and +3 Loyalty.
• [New] Wild Card Policy, "Global Academic Network". Unlocks at Ideology. Cities with a Research Lab gain +5% Science and Growth (+10% for Communist or Synthetic Technocracy).
• [New] Wild Card Policy, "Global Financial Markets". Unlocks at Ideology. Cities with a Stock Exchange get +10% Gold and Growth (+15% for Democracy or Digital Democracy).
• [New] Wild Card Policy, "Global Hegemony". Unlocks at Ideology. +50% production to Waterparks and Entertainment Complexes and for running Bread and Circuses Project (+100% for Facism and Corporate Libertariansm).

Coast and Colonies

• Coastal Cities. All existing and new coastal cities gain +1 base Production after you research Celestial Navigation and an additional +1 Production after you research Mass Production.
• Lighthouse. Lighthouse additionally provides a free Trading Post when built and improved sea resources provide +1.0 Housing instead of 0.5 in Cities with a Lighthouse.
• Shipyard. Additionally provides +5 Resource Cap.
• Sea Port. Additionally provides additional +5 Resource Cap, +2 Citizen Slots instead of +1 and increases Harbour adjacency by +1.
• [New] Diplomatic Policy Card, “Sun Never Sets”. Each Colonial City provides +0.25 Diplomatic Favour and +0.5 Influence Points per turn. Unlocks at Colonialism.
• [New] Military Policy Card, “National Guard”. +100% Production when Repairing Districts or Buildings. Unlocks at Civil Engineering.
• [New] Military Policy Card, “Maritime Investment”. Coastal Cities receive +2 Loyalty and +20% Growth. Lumber-mills provides +1 Production. Unlocks at Mercantilism.

City States

• Tier 3 Buildings. Players with Suzerain of any City States receive +2 yields to each Tier 3 Buildings they have of that City States type; e.g. Suzerain of a Science City State will give you +2 Science for each Research Lab.
• Unique Units. Each Militaristic City State has a Unique Melee Unit which replaces either the Swordsman or Musketman. Each Mercantile and Industrial City State has a Unique Anti-Cav Unit, which replaces the Spearman, Pikeman or Pike & Shot. Unique City States Units are stronger (+2 CS) and have a favoured terrain (ignore movement penalty and +3 CS combat strength from favoured terrain). City State Unique Units can be used by Player when they Levy that City State’s Army.

Units and Combat

• Anti-Cav. Spearmen and other Anti-Cav are cheaper; Spearmen have zero Maintenance Cost and all other Anti-Cav have -1 Maintenance compared to other units of the same Era and combat strength generally brought in line with Era average CS for units.
  • Bonuses. Anti-cav no longer get a flat +10 v Cav and Melee don't get a flat +10 v Anti-Cav.
  • Warrior. Gains no bonus against Spearmen etc.
  • Spearmen, Pikemen and Pike & Shot. Spearmen gain +10 v light Cav. Pikemen and Pike & Shot gain +10 v Light and Heavy Cav (up to but excluding Tanks and Helicopters) and additionally gain +5 when Fortified. Swords and Medieval Melee gain +10 v Spearmen only.
  • Gunpowder. All Gunpowder units (eg Muskets, Pike & Shot, Cavalry) get +10 against all non-gunpowder units.
  • AT Crew and MAT Crew. These units gain +10 v Tanks, Helicopters and GDR. Provide AA cover.
  • Helicopters. These gain +10 v Tanks and GDR.
  • Infantry, Mech Infantry. No bonus v AC, but +5 fighting in Districts.
• Resources. Overall, more units require Iron, less require Niter or Oil.
  • Muskets and Cuirassier continue to require Niter.
  • Frigates and Bombards, Artillery now require Iron, not Niter or Oil.
  • Cavalry require Horses, not Niter.
  • Infantry have no resource requirement to build, but still use 1 Oil per turn (so, you can build them without Oil but they're weaker).
  • Tanks require 20 Iron (representing Steel) and require 1 Oil per turn.
  • Nuclear Submarines required 5 Uranium to build but have no maintenance requirement. Other Submarines do not require any resources.
  • Aircraft (including Helicopters) require 20 Aluminium to Build but have no maintenance requirements.
  • Armory provides +1 Niter per turn.
  • AI receives +2 Resource Discount at Emperor and Immortal, and +5 at Deity.
• Light Cavalry. -17 CS vs Cities and +5 CS v Ranged and Seige units.
• Heavy Cavalry. Heavy Cav do not benefit from +% Production Cards and always have +1 Maintenance compared to other units of the same Era. Heavy Cav get a -10 v Cities until they get to Tanks (which get no penalty).
  
• Siege Units. +10 Defence vs Ranged if unit has not moved this turn.
• Unique Units. Hoplites additionally receive no penalties from being injured (like Samurai). Immortals no longer replace Swordsman - both are unlocked at Iron Working. Berserker receives additional Movement when in Enemy Territory or Embarked and no negative to Defence. Khvesur gain combat and movement bonus from both hills and woods. Samurai additionally receive +5 CS when attacking.
• Future Techs. Advanced AI provides +2 Pop to all Cities when unlocked, and all Factories provide +1 Amenity; Cybernetics provides +1 Movement to all Land Melee Units; Smart Materials provides +5 Defence to Heavy and Light Cavalry; Predictive Systems provides +1 Movement to all Light Cav and Anti-Cav units.
• Spies. Spies can no longer Recruit Partisans.
• Rockband. Cannot enter foreign territory without open borders. Rebalance tourism boosts relative to Naturalists / National Parks.
• Professional Army Policy Card. No longer discounts Gold Upgrade costs. Instead, all Naval and Land Melee and Anti-Cav units gain +20% XP.

Aircraft, Carriers and AA

• Buff AA values for Battleships, Missile Cruiser Destroyer. These units are buffed to similar levels as SAM etc. They should receive additional +5 AA as an Armada and +10 as a Fleet.

• Units with AA get a free / intercept attack when they are attacked directly, instead of only intercepting attacks to neighbouring units. Aircraft attacking a naval unit with AA will receive an intercept attack and damage from the naval unit before then attacking the naval unit as usual.

• Units with AA also intercept attack enemy units moving through their area of control, not just units which attack friendly units within that area.

• Aircraft Carriers. Aircraft on patrol move with the Aircraft Carrier. Aircraft Carrier gains experience from any kills by other friendly naval or air units within three tiles of the Aircraft Carrier. Aircraft carriers also provide +1 Great Admiral and +1 Great General point per turn.

Civilizations

• Cree. UA provides free Starting Recon Unit. Do not receive a free Trader at Pottery, but instead +50% Production for Traders.
• England. Pax B no longer gives a free melee or naval unit; instead, Governors established in a City on a Foreign Capital provide +3% Gold and Culture for each Governor title. Pax B continues to provide the Red Coat unit and a free trade route when you first settle on another continent. The Royal Navy Dockyard on a Foreign Continent provides +50% discount to building or purchasing Naval Units and Land Melee Units (in addition to its other benefits, and for both Vicky and Eleanor). WotW provides +4 Additional Powered Yields (up from +2) in addition to its other bonuses.
• France. Chateau provides double culture and gold during a Golden Age.
• Spain. Treasure Fleet now provides +1 Food and +1 Production to both Internal and Domestic International Trade Routes (no additional gold for external trade routes), and Markets and Light Houses on Foreign Continents provide +1 Gold.
• Netherlands. UA additionally provides +50% production bonus for Harbours.
• Sumeria. Leader Ability is revised as follows: all units receive +25% experience. All units receive +1 Combat Strength for each Alliance.

Bugs

• Fix Royal Navy Dockyard movement bug (i.e. England units lose +1 movement when upgraded). RND now gives +1 Movement to all units built OR UPGRADED in a City with a RND.
• [Fix Trade Bug (AI paying too much for Diplomatic Favour etc).] [Partially fixed already by April 2019 Hotfix.]
• Continents Map. Tweak Continent Map script so it forms some small Islands / Island chains in addition to two or three large continents.
• Fix how AI currently evaluates Pantheons. AI currently evaluates pantheons on current yields not potential yields, so undervalued eg God of the Open Sky. If this can’t be completely fixed, maybe give some AI Civs preferences to certain Pantheons that suit their existing bonuses and play style.
• Fix City Defence Calculations. Cities seem to have reduced defence scores in some situations.

[edit: university received science from appeal; reverted to reduced flat bonus per discussion below. Lots of other tweaks.]

 

[Gedemon]

Modding (option 1)

• DLL source code

Modding (option 2)

• API documentation : full list of available methods and parameters
• Game events that you can use to modify the gameplay, similar to civ5 (TestAll):
  
  • GameEvents.CanMakeDiplomaticAction( PlayerID1, PlayerID2, DiplomaticActionType)
  • GameEvents.CanTrade( PlayerID1, PlayerID2, ResourceType )
  • GameEvents.CanMakeDeal( PlayerID1, PlayerID2, DealType )
  • GameEvents.CityCanCreate ( PlayerID, CityID, ProjectType )
  • GameEvents.CityCanConstruct ( PlayerID, CityID, BuildingType )
  • GameEvents.CityCanCreate ( PlayerID, CityID, ProjectType )
  • GameEvents.CityCanTrain ( PlayerID, CityID, UnitType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanConstruct ( PlayerID, BuildingType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanCreate ( PlayerID, ProjectType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanResearchTech ( PlayerID, TechType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanResearchCivic ( PlayerID, CivicType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanAdoptPolicy ( PlayerID, PolicyType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanAdoptGovernment ( PlayerID, GovernmentType )
  • GameEvents.PlayerCanTrain ( PlayerID, UnitType )
  • GameEvents.UnitCanAttack ( UnitID1 , UnitID2 )
  • GameEvents.UnitCanDoActionAt ( UnitID , ActionType, PlotID )
• More gameplay related methods like the DeclareWarOn() added for DLC scenarios :
  
  • pPlayer:GetDiplomacy():ForceAction( OtherPlayerID1, DiplomaticActionType)
  • ForceTrace
  • ForceDeal
• Remove GameModifiers from players/cities
• Add/Remove GameModifiers from units (or at least the ability to remove a promition from an unit)
• Add "StackingClasses" or "StackingWheigth" tables to allow separate values for stacking units type (for example 2 civilians + 1 ranged + 1 melee + 1 recon on a tile)
• Bug fixes
  
  • pPlot:SetOwner() now allows cities to use the assigned plots
  • Allows AI units to stack depending on the value of PLOT_UNIT_LIMIT or those in the proposed Stacking tables (Last time I tried there is a check at the end of the AI turn to unstack units even when PLOT_UNIT_LIMIT > 1).
• Allow SQL queries to modify the Artdef

 

[acluewithout]

@Gedemon Completely agree.

Thought this was interesting, so adding it here:

1) Please change the AI dialogue when you accept an offer they have made. Right now, the text shown is what happens when AI accepts and offer YOU have made, i.e., "a reasonable offer." But it makes no sense for AI to say "a reasonable offer" when AI is the one who made the offer! Now that you can't modify an AI's offer (right?) this should be easy to do.

2) In a similar vein, please swap the AI animation for what happens when you decline an AI's offer. The animation that is played is what happens when the AI declines your offer, i.e., the AI shakes his head or puts his hands up in refusal. This animation makes no sense for when an AI declines YOUR offer. Instead of that, the animation should be the one for when the AI is upset at you for not fulfilling their agenda or some other reason, i.e., a loud sigh. That animation makes more sense for when you decline an AI's offer.

3) Please allow us to turn on/off Quick Combat and Quick Movement ONLY for AI. I enjoy the movement and combat animations for my units but do not enjoy slowing down the turn timer to see a bunch of AI units taking forever to run around and do combat. (better yet, make it so you can also just turnoff religious unit movement/animations.) And then please assign hotkeys to those.

There is also a thread on reddit by the developers, asking for feed back on the patch. Some good suggestions there too . Link.

 

[Jkchart]

Late Antarctic Summer Patch is out. It's awesome. If fixes a lot of things. Breaks a couple of things. And we finally have Map Tacks.

So, what should FXS do for the next patch?

To be clear, only post ideas that are suitable for a patch. Expansions, DLC etc, can go somewhere else. And if you're going to talk about the AI, please be really specific about the behavior you want changed rather than just "better at combat" or "not stupid".

Here's my list done "patch note" style. Sorry, it's not short...

Industrial

• Industrial Zone. Add +1 Adjacency from improved strategic resources (so improved horses provides +1, and an improved Iron Mine provides +2).
  • Hansa. Receives additional +1 Great Merchant Point.
• Workshop. +1 Housing. +1 Production to all Pastures in this City.
• Factory. + Production equal to current IZ adjacency (instead of Coal Plant). Additional +4 production when powered.
  • Electronics Factory. Culture Bonus reduced to +2 but now Regional Boost (all Cities within 6 tiles).
• Powerplants. Coal and Oil Powerplants both provide +6 Regional Production Boost (no adjacency boost for Coal Plant). Nuclear Powerplant provides +8 Production and +3 Science as Regional Boost.
• [New] Tech Hub. Tier 3 IZ Building, unlocks at Telecommunications. Allows stacking of Regional Bonuses. Each District in this City also gains +1 Production and +1 Science when Tech hub is powered. Cost 600, Maintenance 5, Power Requirement 4. (Uses Research Lab graphics.)
• Library. Reduce Science to +1.
• University. Reduce base Science to 0; instead, +Science equal to 50% Appeal.
  • Madras. Unchanged.
• Research Lab. Bonus is now +2 Science, plus additional +6 Science when fully powered. Provides +2 Citizen Slots, instead of +1.
  • Communism and Synthetic Technocracy provide respectively +5% and +10% Science and Growth to each City with a Research Lab.
• Stock Exchange. Additional +4 Gold to all Cities within 6 Tiles that have a Bank. Provides +2 Citizen Slots, instead of +1.
  • Democracy and Digital Democracy provide respectively +10% and +15% Gold and Growth to each City with a Stock Exchange.
• Digital Democracy no longer reduces combat strength of units; instead, unit maintenance is increased by +1 for all units and War Weariness is +150%.
• Facism and Corporate Libertarianism. Armory and Shipyards provide +1 Oil per turn.
• Ancient Walls. Unchanged, but renamed “Walls”.
• Medieval Walls. Changed to “Medieval Castle” (which also provides Medieval Walls). Provides +1 Housing, +10% production bonus for Anti-Cav and Siege units, +100 Outer Defence, and +10CS to this City and +5CS to all Cities within 6 tiles. (Uses Medieval Wall graphics.)
• Renaissance Walls. Changed to “Renaissance Palace” (which also provides Renaissance Walls). Provides additional +1 Housing, +10% production bonus for Anti-Cav and Siege units, +100 Outer Defence, and +10CS to this City and +5CS to all Cities within 6 tiles. (Uses Renaissance Wall graphics.)
  • Monarchy. Legacy Bonus changed to +1 Amenity for each Castle Level (+1 or +2) and Camp.
  • Tsikhe. Unchanged, but become replacement for Renaissance Palace.
• Fort. Provides ZOC and +5% Border Growth.
• Military Engineer. Military Engineer can build Roads without using a Builder Charge (1 Iron) in addition to building Railways, and can speed production of Sea Walls and District Repairs. Military Engineer required to build Offshore Oil Rig.
• Railways and Canals. A City with a Factory receives +1 Production for each City it is connected to by Rail (max +4). Industrial Zones gain a major adjacency (+2) for each neighbouring Canal Tile.

Coast and Colonies

• Lighthouse. Improved sea resources provide +1.0 Housing instead of 0.5. Gain a Free Trading Post when Lighthouse completed.
• Shipyard. Provides +5 Resource Cap.
• Sea Port. Provides additional +5 Resource Cap and +2 Citizen Slots instead of +1.
• [New] Diplomatic Policy Card, “Sun Never Sets”. Each Colonial City provides +0.5 Diplomatic Favour and + 1 Influence Points per turn. Unlocks at Colonialism.
• [New] Military Policy Card, “National Guard”. +100% Production when Repairing Districts. Unlocks at Civil Engineering.
• [New] Military Policy Card, “Maritime Investment”. +25% Production and Growth in Coastal Cities. Lumber-mills provides +1 Production. Unlocks at Mercantilism.

City States

• Harbour Buildings. Players with 3 or 6 Envoys with Military or Industrial City States receive +1 Production to respectively Lighthouses and Shipyards (in addition to any bonuses from Mercantile City States).
• Tier 3 Buildings. Players with Suzerain of any City States receive +2 yields to each Tier 3 Buildings they have of that City States type; e.g. Suzerain of a Science City State will give you +2 Science for each Research Lab.
• Unique Units. Each Militaristic City State has a Unique Melee Unit which replaces either the Swordsman or Musketman. Each Mercantile and Industrial City States has a Unique Anti-Cav Unit, which replaces the Spearman, Pikeman or Pike & Shot. Unique City States Units are stronger (+2) and have a favoured terrain (ignore movement penalty and +3 combat strength from favoured terrain). City State Unique Units can be used by Player when they Levy that City States Army.

Units and Combat

• Anti-Cav. Spearmen and other Anti-Cav are cheaper; Spearmen have zero Maintenance Cost.
  • Hoplite. Loses adjacency bonus, and instead receives +10 Combat Strength in Friendly Territory (including Friendly City States) or when Fortified.
• Resources. Overall, more units require Iron, less require Niter or Oil.
  • Muskets and Cuirassier continue to require Niter.
  • Frigates and Bombards, Artillery now require Iron, not Niter or Oil.
  • Cavalry require Horses, not Niter.
  • Infantry have no resource requirement to build, but still use 1 Oil per turn (so, you can build them without Oil but they're weaker).
  • Tanks require 20 Iron (representing Steel) and require 1 Oil per turn.
  • Nuclear Submarines required 5 Uranium to build but have no maintenance requirement. Other Submarines do not require any resources.
  • Aircraft (including Helicopters) require 20 Aluminium to Build but have no maintenance requirements.
  • AI receives +5 Resource Discount at Emperor and Immortal, and +10 at Deity.
• Light Cavalry. -17 CS vs Cities.
• Siege Units. +5 Defence vs Ranged if unit has not moved this turn.
• Other. Kongo UU CS increased to 36. Immortals no longer replaces Swordsman. Berserker receives additional +2 Movement when Embarked.
• Future Techs. Advanced AI provides +1 Economic Card Slot; Cybernetics provides +1 Movement to all Land Melee Units; Smart Materials provides +5 Defence to Heavy Cavalry; Predictive Systems provides +1 Movement to all Light Cav and Anti-Cav units.
• Spies. Spies can no longer Recruit Partisans.
• [New] Military Policy Card, “Military Investment”. Armories and Factories each provide +1 Niter per turn. Unlocks at Nationalism.

Civilizations

• Cree. UA provides free Starting Recon Unit. Do not receive a free Trader at Pottery, but instead +50% Production for Traders.
• England. Sea Dog can heal in Neutral Territory and provides Science from Kills. Royal Navy Dockyard provides +50% Production to Naval Units and Land Melee Units. WotW provides +4 Additional Yields (up from +2) in addition to its other bonuses.
• France. All tiles in a City gain +1 Appeal per Wonder in that City. Chateau provides +2 Culture, +1 Culture for each level of Appeal above “Charming”, and +1 Gold per adjacent Luxury Resources.

Bugs

• Fix Royal Navy Dockyard movement bug (i.e. England units lose +1 movement when upgraded). RND now gives +1 Movement to all units built OR UPGRADED in a City with a RND.
• Fix Trade Bug (AI paying too much for Diplomatic Favour etc).
• Continents Map. Tweak Continent Map script so it forms some small Islands / Island chains in addition to two or three large continents.

I want to be constructive, so I apologize if anything sounds too critical. Feel free to tell me where I'm going wrong if some of your ideas don't make sense to me

I like the idea of Industrial Zone adjacency improvements, but I don't like that extends to Horses because it just doesn't fit with the idea of IZs. I would just say mines with strategic resources get a major adjacency bonus instead of standard. Why would a workshop give additional production for Pastures? i do think that Workshops could be better, but what am I not seeing that you want to use IZ and their buildings to buff pastures? Yes to the factory/Powerplant improvments. I also like the idea of a tech hub, but don't let them get away with reusing the research lab graphics!!!

I don't like your University changes being based on appeal. That has the potential to make them practically useless. In practice? Probably not, but it would be the only building like that, and it doesn't make sense to nerf the University that much. The Research Lab could use some sort of buff (so could specialists...but I digress). Also, poor library :-( You didn't have to hit it that hard with a nerf bat! Maybe +1 Science, and +1 with some other factor, like a Monument and culture?

I like tier 3 buildings having an extra specialist slot, but still Specialists need to be greatly buffed.

I don't think the T3/4 governments will ever share bonuses the way you have suggested...I do like your changes to Direct Democracy with the war weariness and maintenance as opposed to your people suddenly losing their will to fight. So yes, +1.

Walls are fine how they are IMO. I can see why some people want to change them or at least differentiate them better with the naming scheme, which would be okay. But I'm not sure how I feel about giving walls radius effects towards keeping cities...after all, walls and castles defend a single city, and this also makes it more problematic for the AI to take human player cities if there are a ton of walls overlapping with their radiuses (and the same for human players).

I always support the fort ZOC. The military engineer changes are good. I also really REALLY like the idea of Canals giving an industrial adjacency bonus, I would also add that to harbors for IZs.

The harbor district building improvements are pretty good. The cards are kind of crazy: the extra favor and influence from non-continent cities has the potential to be WAY too powerful, and National Guard seems like something few people would use, but I see its utility (sometimes pillages CAN take forever to repair). I do really LOVE the maritime investment card. I would put that in the game easy.

I don't think City States need UUs, but the harbor and T3 building improvements are good ideas.

Cheaper anticav = yes; resource rebalance sorely needed (definitely a number of threads and I won't regurgitate my thread ideas here, too extensive) both Light AND Heavy Cav should get a city attack debuff (though HC is smaller); Siege should just get a defense against ranged. No to the absolute prohibition against spies doing recruit partisans, rather that needs a rework to low loyalty cities, or occupied cities. There needs to be some sort of restriction, rather than being able to spawn mech infantry in your most loyal core cities (which is stupid). Your future tech changes are interesting.

The Cree are fine how they are, but I think they should get the Okhitchitaw instead of a warrior. France...can they just fix the Chateau? Why does it feel like they nerfed it? England: I'm fine with the neutral healing sea dogs, why science from kills? +4 for WOTW seems a little strong, but I mean...I think this would be a good idea to try. RNDY shouldn't provide production to land units, but i do support some sort of naval unit buff for it as long as it doesn't step on the toes of the Cothon too much.

Yes to the bug fixes.

 

[acluewithout]

Thanks @Jkchart . Appreciate the comments, particularly as I might end up modding something based on this thread.

Thought I'd just respond to a few points.

I like the idea of Industrial Zone adjacency improvements, but I don't like that extends to Horses because it just doesn't fit with the idea of IZs. ....Why would a workshop give additional production for Pastures?

My changes are mostly directed at gameplay and a bit of flavour. I've play tested these changes a bit, and they seem to work. The IZ averages +5 to +6 instead of +3 to +4, and the Workshop is better without making it so good you have one in every city.

In terms of flavour, the horses / IZ Adjacency represents horses being used as raw material (leather etc), or providing power to assist manufacturing, or stirrups etc. are being made for the horses. The Hansa of course gets boosts from all resources (not just strategic) so I thought this was an okay change. The boost to pastures represents leather or wool being used to manufacture products.

I don't like your University changes being based on appeal. That has the potential to make them practically useless.

I think Science buildings are way too powerful, particularly with cards. Even with the nerfs, you'll still get a lot of science though, mostly from City States. Universities will still be good - if your campus is next to a mountain you'll have heaps of science. If not, you now get science from woods, coast and natural wonders because these buff appeal. So placement is more important. Also another reason to plant forests later in.

I like tier 3 buildings having an extra specialist slot, but still Specialists need to be greatly buffed.

I think the weakness of specialists is intentional. It means you can't get science etc just by playing tall. I think the extra citizen slot provides a measured boost. But yeah, maybe specialists would still need more overall - I'm not sure.

Walls are fine how they are IMO. ...I'm not sure how I feel about giving walls radius effects towards keeping cities...

There's currently no reason to build more than ancient walls. AW give you a City Attack and prevent steamrolling. MW and RW only provide more city defence, which just isn't needed. My suggested changes hopefully create more of a use case for higher wall levels by turning them into castles and having them provide other advantages.

The Castle AOE Defence is for two reasons. First, it makes the map more strategic, because now you may need to take out a more fortified core city to weaken surrounding territory (not bonuses wouldn't stack, so multiple overlapping castles isn't that useful; and not the bonus only applies to City Defence, not units). Second, the AOE represents (in an abstract way) the more fortified city being able to provide supplies and support to neighbouring cities. I mean, castles were never just about protecting the fortified city, but also to provide a solid base for controlling the surrounding territory.

The cards are kind of crazy: the extra favor and influence from non-continent cities has the potential to be WAY too powerful, and National Guard seems like something few people would use, but I see its utility (sometimes pillages CAN take forever to repair). I do really LOVE the maritime investment card. I would put that in the game easy.

The colonial card could be strong and maybe needs balancing. But there needs to be more incentive to having colonial cities. And I think the boost to DF and Influence does a good job of representing the prestige that came from colonialism.

The repair card is because Coastal Cities find it very hard to recover from environmental disasters.

I don't think City States need UUs.

They don't. I just think it would be fun (both to fight them and to levy them), would make City States more varied, and would be easy to implement.

 

[Jkchart]

Thanks @Jkchart . Appreciate the comments, particularly as I might end up modding something based on this thread.

Thought I'd just respond to a few points.

I like the idea of Industrial Zone adjacency improvements, but I don't like that extends to Horses because it just doesn't fit with the idea of IZs. ....Why would a workshop give additional production for Pastures?

My changes are mostly directed at gameplay and a bit of flavour. I've play tested these changes a bit, and they seem to work. The IZ averages +5 to +6 instead of +3 to +4, and the Workshop is better without making it so good you have one in every city.

In terms of flavour, the horses / IZ Adjacency represents horses being used as raw material (leather etc), or providing power to assist manufacturing, or stirrups etc. are being made for the horses. The Hansa of course gets boosts from all resources (not just strategic) so I thought this was an okay change. The boost to pastures represents leather or wool being used to manufacture products.

I don't like your University changes being based on appeal. That has the potential to make them practically useless.

I think Science buildings are way too powerful, particularly with cards. Even with the nerfs, you'll still get a lot of science though, mostly from City States. Universities will still be good - if your campus is next to a mountain you'll have heaps of science. If not, you now get science from woods, coast and natural wonders because these buff appeal. So placement is more important. Also another reason to plant forests later in.

I like tier 3 buildings having an extra specialist slot, but still Specialists need to be greatly buffed.

I think the weakness of specialists is intentional. It means you can't get science etc just by playing tall. I think the extra citizen slot provides a measured boost. But yeah, maybe specialists would still need more overall - I'm not sure.

Walls are fine how they are IMO. ...I'm not sure how I feel about giving walls radius effects towards keeping cities...

There's currently no reason to build more than ancient walls. AW give you a City Attack and prevent steamrolling. MW and RW only provide more city defence, which just isn't needed. My suggested changes hopefully create more of a use case for higher wall levels by turning them into castles and having them provide other advantages.

The Castle AOE Defence is for two reasons. First, it makes the map more strategic, because now you may need to take out a more fortified core city to weaken surrounding territory (not bonuses wouldn't stack, so multiple overlapping castles isn't that useful; and not the bonus only applies to City Defence, not units). Second, the AOE represents (in an abstract way) the more fortified city being able to provide supplies and support to neighbouring cities. I mean, castles were never just about protecting the fortified city, but also to provide a solid base for controlling the surrounding territory.

The cards are kind of crazy: the extra favor and influence from non-continent cities has the potential to be WAY too powerful, and National Guard seems like something few people would use, but I see its utility (sometimes pillages CAN take forever to repair). I do really LOVE the maritime investment card. I would put that in the game easy.

The colonial card could be strong and maybe needs balancing. But there needs to be more incentive to having colonial cities. And I think the boost to DF and Influence does a good job of representing the prestige that came from colonialism.

The repair card is because Coastal Cities find it very hard to recover from environmental disasters.

I don't think City States need UUs.

They don't. I just think it would be fun (both to fight them and to levy them), would make City States more varied, and would be easy to implement.

Thanks for explaining your reasonings, @acluewithout , a pleasure as always!

-Your reasoning for IZ makes much more sense now that you explain it, and I would approve of this. Interested to see if you do publish a mod with these balances. I do think we need late game food processing buildings to boost the output of food-related improvements such as pastures, because it is a significant industry with no representation within the game really, excepting the food market (but of course that's only related to the selling as opposed to manufacturing). Example: a stockyard which greatly increases the food from pastures.

-With regard to your university point: I do get where you're coming from. My concern is based on clustered cities/districts. For example, Japan, which is encouraged to build districts and cities close together. Lots of times, when you do this (or say if you just are a player without many of these features, or you just have little space), you might have a lot of low appeal tiles to place your campus on. Industrial Zones, Aerodromes, and lots of improvements too, will lower appeal. Also, this makes universities incredibly restrictive, and it also makes less sense game wise, because appeal is not a source of science in game terms - they've boiled it down to culture/tourism and faith. That means that you now have three mechanics/victories competing for high appeal tiles, and that is very crowded. I know in a lot of ways it already does it with campus adjacency, so this point may be moot in a number of ways, but overcrowding is an issue with Civ VI by design, and this also risks people putting science even higher of a priority, which is the yield already considered king by many players. Perhaps Universities could give more science based on population? Realistically, smaller population centers don't have these facilities and would send their children to bigger cities, so maybe this is a good time to start bringing back scaling yields. Just my thought, but thank you for clarifying.

-Specialists need a bit more incentive, and there are a lot of people that feel this way. Having a high population should be rewarded by taking advantage of specialists that actually are useful, as in past games. Yields of no more than 2 are kind of wimpy (really, there are a LOT of yields that need to be re-balanced), especially in comparison to past games. Playing tall isn't a bad thing, and there needs to be more of a balance between tall and wide. We DON'T need to railroad like Civ V towards where tall is supreme and it was infuriating just to found a single pop city because it would kill your civ's happiness (and I still maintain that Global Happiness was single-handedly the worst mechanic the series introduced, so I much like Amenities after that ) I'm not sure the perfect way to rebalance them - some have suggested bonus GPP points like past games offered, and I would quite like that to return.

-This is where we will disagree because I believe Medieval Walls and Renaissance Walls are highly useful - it makes your cities into fortresses that require heavy investment to actually take. The question of necessity really does depend on where those cities are located though, so you do want those in border/important cities. More defense is never a bad thing, especially for players that focus less on building an army. The problem with walls can be their ridiculous cost in investment unless you use policies such as Limes, or having the Valletta city state to faith by them. I do understand what you want from their effects though - I quite like the extra production towards anticav and siege units, as that creates an indirect buff for them (since Anticav are unusually expensive, and are more useful as a defensive unit anyway to counter, say, a Knight rush, but they also act as places where siege weapons are created, giving them an offensive purpose). Perhaps, your AOE works, but can I add a caveat since you are basing it on supplies? If a city falls under siege, it loses support from other Medieval/Renaissance castle levels, which is realistic as well.

-Oh I like the ideas behind your cards - I understand National Guard perfectly. It's definitely useful, for some reason I just felt like it would be the type of card that gets ignored. The colonial card could just be OP - if I start on a small continent, and the vast majority of my cities are on another continent from my capital, that creates a Diplomatic Influence snowball. Snowballing is already a real problem with the game, that's why i said it should be rebalanced. Those yields do represent what you would like, perhaps reduce it to for every 3 cities on another continent (or 4 if too unbalanced) that it increases those yields? 2 just seems like it could be easily abused to me, I could be wrong

-True about the CS UUs.

 

[acluewithout]

@Jkchart Thanks for the comments. I’ll chew them over - but you’ve definetly convinced me on universities. I’ll go back and tweak the OP.

 

[Jkchart]

@Jkchart Thanks for the comments. I’ll chew them over - but you’ve definetly convinced me on universities. I’ll go back and tweak the OP.

You're welcome.

i did like where you were headed with Universities, I just was trying to find an alternate mechanic other than appeal to get the same effect. Of course, that means high population cities are gold for universities, so there would definitely have to be a number balancing (like +1 for every 3 or 4 citizens); I wonder if that could be modded in?

 

[acluewithout]

I’d avoided Science for Pop with universities because there are very prestigious universities that are situated in relatively small cities.

I think maybe the best approach is the simplest - just have universities give less base science. They produce plenty through City States anyways.

 

[Jkchart]

I’d avoided Science for Pop with universities because there are very prestigious universities that are situated in relatively small cities.

I think maybe the best approach is the simplest - just have universities give less base science. They produce plenty through City States anyways.

And that's true. I didn't think of that, but it is often the case. Plus, many universities with lots of students may not be as good/prestigious as smaller ones.

Perhaps improvements to the university can come through the tech tree? That's my favorite thing about the GDR (and improvements, since they also follow this logic) - buildings should also benefit from certain upgrades.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I would like to see the Cultural Victory be brought in line with the Science and Diplomatic Victories with regards to length.

 

[Rajendran_P]

1. One of the main thing I want to see in the patch is WorldBuilder. To play civilisation, we need map. However, the current map provided by the developer can’t play all civilisations in one game. The WorldBuilder should have advance features, which enable us to creat very large maps.

2. The developer should give the option for players to select the specific city-states, just like choosing the civilisation in the game setting.

 

[acluewithout]

@Rajendran_P Relatedly, I’d like the ability to exclude some Civs and leaders.

 

[Sostratus]

After being summoned by @acluewithout like the crafty magus he is,
A short list of a few things I think would be easy to do and would be in the right direction for the ultimate balance of the game (insert thanos reference.) This is not exhaustive. This is entirely intended to be a minimal effort patch so FXS staff can go lay on a beach for a while instead of crunching.

Trade Routes
1. The recent changes in both GS and the patch still leaves coastal cities a bit lacking. For this reason, I would suggest that trade route efficiency be applied to food, prod, and gold for int'l and domestic routes (I've been hawking this for a few months.) This would not include science and culture and it would not include most flat bonus effects (it currently ignores these types of things for int'l gold already.) So, for example, this bars Poland from getting their Sukiennice +4 gold doubled; it also keeps things like Wisselbanken from getting out of hand. However, the basic district bonus is affected. The dream scenario is that an empire like england can actually have a few settlements on the coast and get great rewards for having trade between them or other maritime cities. This also gives a strong incentive to railroad building for any empire. (But sea trade gets the bonus at turn 1!)
1.1. The mountain tunnel now grants 5 efficiency for travelling through instead of 15. If we were to implement 1. without 1.1, the Inca would become the most OP civ because qhapac nans would let them get full effect on practically any land route as long as it goes through a qhapac. (Basically, a qhapac means that any route that is about ~22 tiles or less and goes through one will get the full efficiency boost.)
1.2. Plundering trade routes now grants additional gold based on the route's own efficiency score. You didn't think I would overlook the Pirates, did you?

Disasters & Climate Change
2. City infrastructure repair now is consolidated: repairing a district will repair all the buildings in it (cost changes to account for the extra damage, but it's a QoL change.)
3. Egypt buff: they are immune to flood damage and they have 1.5x chance of getting fertility if they own the tile. I think Egypt is still weaker than necessary and this hopefully pushes it in a flavorful direction.

Resources
4. Coal and Oil deposits provide +1, now 4 units each. Further, the oil power plant produces 6 power per unit consumed, instead of 4. This is to balance oil against coal for power generation.
5. A pair of Military cards are introduced: "Synthetic Oil Initiative" and "National Recycling Campaign." These cards provide +5 oil and +5 aluminum income respectively. However, both cost 20gpt to maintain. This is to prevent a player from totally getting hosed by map RNG. They can at least nominally defend themselves.

Units
Remember, I promised simple. Patch level simplicity.
6. Skirmishers boosted to 35/30. Rangers boosted to 60/55. Spec-ops boosted to 70/65. This is to make the unit line actually viable in some capacity in combat: they are now differentiated from melee units and ranged units.
6.1 The Scottish Highlander retains it's +5/+5 advantage over normal rangers.
6.2 The Incan Warak'aq is also changed: Melee strength brought up to 25, but each attack now consumes 1MP (currently zero.) This enables a high level of kiting under Guerrilla promotion, and it allows two attacks plus a pillage or an end of turn heal if they don't move. This allows far too much healing under city strikes.
7. Infantry and AT crew boosted to 75 strength. Modern AT boosted to 85 strength. This will balance late game combat significantly.
8. Artillery no longer require oil. If you lack oil you have no actual siege capacity to wrest control from a rival. This fixes that.
9. Destroyers no longer require oil. If you lack oil you have no naval capacity to wrest control from a rival. This fixes that. It also helps players protect those enhanced sea routes.
10. I would prefer Infantry do not require oil (using niter etc is fine.) However, if it must, then tank and modern armor units get slapped with a 25% production cost increase.
11. Carrier fleets and armadas provide +1 aircraft capacity each.

Districts & Buildings
12. Dams and canals now have the same base cost as regular districts (54) instead of 50% increased (81 currently.)
12.1 canals gain the +3 gold bonus from Seaports. A QoL buff. Also applies to the Panama canal.
13. Power plant order of precedence is changed. Currently the order is largest stockpile->largest income->most advanced. This is not transparent to players. It will now be most advanced->largest stockpile->largest income.
This to allow players to actually get the clean power they desire from nuke plants. Presently building a nuke plant may be worthless if you have more coal deposits than uranium (very common scenario.)

 

[acluewithout]

@Sostratus Good suggestions. In particular, I’d forgotten about the power resource precedent thing. FXS really need to tweak that, and your suggestion is spot on.

 

[SaiH]

I'd love to see some re-balancing of strategic resources following the example set by the logical resource requirements mod
Also, an option to trade strategic resources per turn would be nice.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Rule Changes:
Coastal Cites can't be put under siege without boats that have ZOC. (I should note I haven't tested this in a while so it may have been done).

Difficulty/AI:
On higher difficulties:
Give the AI free resources
Move Luxuries/Bonus Resources to Techs - Just like with the change to Horses
Give AI City wall in Capital

Balance/Make more options viable
Move Oligarchy Effect to Warlord's Throne in addition to it's current bonus. Give Oligarchy the Earth Goddess bonus.
Give God of the Harvest to Exodus of the Evangelists
Initiation Rites, God of War, Stone Circles Add Great Person point from Holy Site (Prophet),
Remove Earth Goddess, God of the Harvest, Divine Spark

Modding (option 2)
- Any modifier that can be positive allow to work negatively. For example Australia's bonus when receiving a declaration of war.

 

[Krajzen]

1) MAKE TECH AND CIVIC PROGRESS SLOWER RELATIVE TO PRODUCTION (you may also buff production)
2) Buff to tall play (best if connected with 1, for example the more pops city has, the higher bonus prod it receives
3) IMHO Canada, Georgia, Khmer and England are bordeline niche garbage and need to be redesigned completely (especially Tsikhe, that trash protectorate faith bonus, martyr counterintuitive gameplay, monasteries of king, tundra bonus, mountie and goddamn near everything English)
4) Above civs are peak trash but Egypt, France and Spain also need one more strong buff to not raise doubts about their power. I suggest Spanish bonus to getting religion, redesigned and synergic Chateau and French UA, and buff to Iteru. Also, for other civs: +1 range for Crouching Tiger, Highlander replace Musketman, Gandhi ability redesigned.
5) Resource requirements are crazy inconsistent. Infantry and Artillery shouldn't need Oil, especially.
6) The ability to select particular city states
7) The ability to EXCLUDE certain leaders from appearing as random civs
8) Notre Dame tribute wonder

 

[oSiyeza]

I just want a couple of things

Game settings

1. Option to scale up the length of ages as you advance (slower tech and civics, and cultural progression), so you have time to use units and tech before they become obsolete

AI

1. Make AI more military aggressive in the middle-late game.
2. Make AI engage more actively in air defensive and offensive operations in late game. Also increase AI ability to support terrestrial operations with naval and aerial forces.
3. Make AI commit more aggressively with the wars they declare. They should pursue peace when they are involved in an undesired war, also they should not declare a war they will or cannot actively engage in. But they should commit longer to a war they declared. Maybe till they achieve their objective, or till they understand they are being defeated or are unable to achieve the objective. Another reason to to stop a war would be a long stale situation.
4. Improve AI ability to coordinate defensively when they are attacked. The AI should be focused on actively build and buy units to support the front in a coordinated effort from all nearby cities.
   
5. Make AI commit more the victory type they pursue. They should pay less attention to victory paths that are disabled and pursue only victory paths compatible with agendas and personalities, but also the status of the game.

WC/Diplomacy

1. Make tall play more viable.
   
2. Bring up to the WC an option to engage in a World War. This is a special event where the world is divided into two factions (and a neutral). It would consist on a long military engagement that can only end in a special WC session. In a World War normal WC, and grievances would be interrupted till peace is signed. Other special rules may apply. WW can only happen in very special circumstances, no more than 3 times in a game, and usually no more than one.
3. Deeper WC game, with more economic sanctions and blockades.
4. Add Non nuclear (or biological) proliferation pact
5. Add some kind of non-aggression pact based on Mutual Assured Destruction (both sides have enough nuclear power or enough army)

Religion

1. Add complexity to religious game outside religious combat. This can be done by expanding WC religious or anti-religious actions, and implementing a deeper interplay of religion and and other game systems (grievance, governments).
   
2. Make the choice of religion and beliefs meaningful, with penalties or advantages in science, military, tourism, trade or loyalty from specific beliefs. A player should be able to his religion in different branches, with different drawbacks and benefits along the way.
3. Increase depth in religious combat. Not sure how, maybe religious units can engage in special operations such as disband military units, disrupt trade routes for a while, create rebellions, or maybe establishing a religious community in a foreign empire may gather insider knowledge. Other options are to be able to convert music bands, or to implement some interplay with other systems. For example an increased defense against spies in cities united under one faith...

Other

1. Increase gold, tourism or religious influence from trade routes trough harbors or coastal cities.
2. Earthquakes and tsunamis.
3. Diseases.
4. Migration/refugee mechanics.
5. Add biological/chemical warfare. These actions would primary reduce population and would be heavily punished in the WC, a resolution for ban these weapons could be implemented.
   
6. Add more (and more interesting) spy operations. Examples can be: disrupt trade routes, block canals, block airports or harbors, spread disease, kill/recruit great people, steal resources (maybe establish clandestine smuggling route for x turns), sabotage flood barriers, sabotage electrical/fuel supply, detonate enemy nuclear weapons (spy dies), sabotage vehicles (tanks, airplanes on land, ships in port), buy a vote in next WC resolution, kill/blackmail religious leader (decreases influence of a religion), poison water supply (reduces population), infiltrate in army (gives position on army units ex. submarines or nuclear weapons)...

 

[acluewithout]

Added to the OP: fix how AI evaluates Pantheons, and evaluation of City Defence.