Stability Guide v1.12

[Leoreth]

The thing is, DoC probably needs something else to make sure that the correct religion is founded by appropriate civilizations.

 

[citis]

The thing is, DoC probably needs something else to make sure that the correct religion is founded by appropriate civilizations.

This already happens. India, Persia and Arabia found the religion on spawn, China shall discover certain techs, as intended. Protestantism, orthodoxy and buddhism have a special founding event.

So the only religion that could be discussed is the first christianity IMO.

 

[Leoreth]

I was talking about a solution that does not rely on technologies.

 

[citis]

I'm afraid it will cause more problems than adding something to the mod. However, I may be wrong.

 

[Acmeandco]

Slavery or Agrarianism after the discovery of Democracy, unless running Totalitarianism: -5
Slavery after the discovery of Economics, unless running Totalitarianism: -5

For every open borders treaty with a civ with your state religion: +1
For every open borders treaty with a civ with a different state religion: +2

For every second civilization you can contact: -1

3 questions:

1. Are the above Slavery penalties compounded? i.e. is there a -10 penalty if you have both Democracy and Economics?

2. Do the above open borders bonuses apply when you're secular? If not, aren't you sacrificing a great deal of potential stability from open border agreements by turning secular?

3. What does the last one mean? "For every second civilization you can contact: -1"? Does that mean you get a penalty just by being in contact with other civs?

 

[Leoreth]

1. Yes, with both it is -10.

2. I have since removed the different treatment for different state religions again. For secular civs, every counts as "different state religion" though.

3. Yes, in other words you get a -0.5 penalty for every contact. It is meant to balance the possible positive points from open borders.

 

[Acmeandco]

One more question: what happened to governments in exile? It used to be that kicking an imperial civ out of Europe forces it to only have its colonial holdings... Now, the moment you conquer a civ's last core city it immediately collapses because with this new algorithm their core population becomes 0, which makes sense in some cases but in others doesn't, and gives Portugal a big advantage as Ponta Delgada is hard to conquer and is a part of its core.

For example, when I was conquering Britain as America, I conquered London and then Edinburgh, and it collapsed. I reloaded until the right before I conquered Edinburgh, when there was only one unit left in the city, and Britain refused to capitulate, all because it had such a big military in India that it thought it could do well in a war against me. I WB'ed some of their Indian troops away and then they were willing to capitulate, but I feel like civs should be really willing to negotiate when they are about to lose their last core city.

 

[Chep]

it doesn't automatically cause them collapse, but their expansion stability malus usually becomes quite huge.
The Dutch (I know) and the Portuguese (I think) can usually deal with this problem, however most other civs can't and then immediately collapse due to the stability check caused by losing their last core city .

 

[cudfather]

I played a Polish game lately in which I conquered the whole Prussia, but it didn't collapse. Conversely, it lived on for a hundred more years until the end of the game in the 1960s. It controlled the entire Russia, parts of China and some one-of cities in the New World and Oceania, in total about 15 cities. NO CORE whatsoever for a very long time. At some point they even reached 'Shaky'.

 

[fdelbene]

When you raze a city, think of it as the genocide of entire section of a country.

If this is the ratio of the razing penalty, historically wise it should be applied only after the discover of Mass Media.

This would let the ancient civilizations raze the cities they want as I don't think e.g. the Romans would have been too in discomfort at the news Carthage was razed and salted.

 

[Daedwartin]

If this is the ratio of the razing penalty, historically wise it should be applied only after the discover of Mass Media.

This would let the ancient civilizations raze the cities they want as I don't think e.g. the Romans would have been too in discomfort at the news Carthage was razed and salted.

It was only razed, actually.

The land was actually given to roman soldiers as farmland. So basically, it was them razing the city, then settling a new city at the exact same spot.

Salt was way too expensive back them. Hell, it can be difficult at times even today to keep a street salted sufficiently depending on recent weather.

 

[Leoreth]

Nah, that's not the reason. Carthage was a coastal city, no reason to get valuable processed salt when you can use seawater.

 

[Lone Wolf]

They did refound the city, though.

 

[fdelbene]

Well, that's not the point!

Even if not salted, and even if refounded 100 years later, the Romans Empire did't get any stability hit for razing the capital of their major opponent.
And this is true for many more examples, until a few decades ago when mass media created the emergence of a "public opinion".

 

[Daedwartin]

Nah, that's not the reason. Carthage was a coastal city, no reason to get valuable processed salt when you can use seawater.

Alright, now you need to move a absolutely massive amount of seawater onto a lot of very good farmland.

Anyways, it is pointless, because they never actually did salt the land at carthage. All they did was raze Carthage, then give that farmland to veterans as payment.


BTW, said region also happened to end up being on of the main food growing regions for the entire empire as a result. And Carthage was later one of the main cities of the empire.

 

[Dan Quayle]

Hi everyone,

There is something I don't quite get in the stability screen: that ratio "number/number" for the overexpansion info (see screenshot attached). Can someone tell me where I can find info on this specific feature or tell what it is, and how to improve it? I got the general idea of the overexpansion mechanic, but this detail is still a mystery to me...

 

[black213]

Hi everyone,

There is something I don't quite get in the stability screen: that ratio "number/number" for the overexpansion info (see screenshot attached). Can someone tell me where I can find info on this specific feature or tell what it is, and how to improve it? I got the general idea of the overexpansion mechanic, but this detail is still a mystery to me...

Overextension is when your peripheral population (population in cities outside of your core) exceeds the number of your core population (population in core cities). Historical territory is cheap peripheral pop-wise to have cities in, while foreign cities count as more to your peripheral pop. Thus, you should
*have many cities in your core (whenever possible and reasonable, too much overlap might not be to your benefit) and high population in them (having only one city in your core territory doubles its core pop value, entering a new era multiplies your core pop)
*avoid growth in peripheral cities and/or utilize despotism actively in them
*prioritize building jails and courthouses in peripheral cities (-25% peripheral pop value per jail/courthouse)
*stack other stability boni to counter overextension when all of above is not enough to countermeasure it

 

[Dan Quayle]

Overextension is when your peripheral population (population in cities outside of your core) exceeds the number of your core population (population in core cities). Historical territory is cheap peripheral pop-wise to have cities in, while foreign cities count as more to your peripheral pop. Thus, you should
*have many cities in your core (whenever possible and reasonable, too much overlap might not be to your benefit) and high population in them (having only one city in your core territory doubles its core pop value, entering a new era multiplies your core pop)
*avoid growth in peripheral cities and/or utilize despotism actively in them
*prioritize building jails and courthouses in peripheral cities (-25% peripheral pop value per jail/courthouse)
*stack other stability boni to counter overextension when all of above is not enough to countermeasure it

Thx for answering and all these tips! But I was really wondering what those two numbers, which show when you have over extention, mean.

 

[Leoreth]

It's the weighted population in your core cities vs. your peripheral cities.

 

[Dan Quayle]

It's the weighted population in your core cities vs. your peripheral cities.

Thx! Is there any way to know how it's calculated exactly? I guess some multiplying/adding factor for the periphery, dividing/substracting factor for core?