Submarines

[aszabo]

In the game i'm playing right now i've built up a substantial fleet of submarines for naval surveillance. i just started a war and i tried to attack some unescorted battleships with a couple of them and they got hosed. I figured a submarine would perform well against an unescorted battleship, but quite the contrary happened. So what are submarines good for? attacking transports? was the problem that i didn't upgrade first strikes or strength so i could increase the visibility? any comments on using submarines in combat are welcome.

 

[Ace4nyC]

subs are best used for survaliance and transport hunters. if you can get them to tier 3(20% to str 1 fs) they can take on battleships without any problems

 

[aszabo]

i guess that's what i was doing wrong, i always put my two promotion points into level 1 flanking and +1 visibility. i guess i'll have to make some attack specialists next time.

 

[Ace4nyC]

i guess that's what i was doing wrong, i always put my two promotion points into level 1 flanking and +1 visibility. i guess i'll have to make some attack specialists next time.

sentries are good to for spying on your enemy costs and/or your invasion route to keep em clear of enemy fleets

 

[Feyd Rautha]

I like to give my subs Flanking I and II and send them out in "wolf packs". With both promotions they have an 80% withdraw chance and you can normally use two of them to take down a battleship without losing either. You then have the third there to mop up any lucky survivors and escort your damaged subs to safer ground.

Of course, the key to this strategy is unit intensive I have found it to be quite effective. An investment of 15 subs in that late game tech gap where you have no buildings to build and a lot of cities are on "wealth" is not going to put you back and you'll have 5 attack groups which should be able to completely cover AI approaches to your costal areas. I'd wouldn't be within a single move of any of the AI's ports however since it would allow the AI sending over a fleet to take out one or more of your subs with the escorting destroyers. Definitely don't get within a half move of the destroyer or else he'll just pop back in the city!!!

 

[Vietcong]

i think what is needed for subs is the ability to pick a unit out of a stack of units to atack.

so for example, if thears a stack of enamy ships. 1 bb, 2 destroyers, and a transport. u chose to atack the ships, and a list pops up and u selecet the transport, or already weakened unit.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Flanking seems like a natural promotion for subs. Subs already get a whopping 50% withdraw rate. Add Flanking I and II, and they survive 80% of attacks from their withdraw rate alone.

 

[Esox]

Another useful aspect of subs is that they can go under ice. This can be helpful depending on the map. Rather than sending a destroyer on a coastline trip around a continent, a sub can take the shortcut.

 

[jimbob27]

Flanking and visability are the only way to go with subs.

Stick them out in the ocean to extend your visability, and keep battleships and destroyers close to the coast to protect your fishing boats.

When your subs see an invasion force on its way to your coast you can follow them, and bring the battleships out to meet the enemy Move bombers if you've got them too, to weaken the enemy ships to give you better odds. End the turn, and if you got the distances right you should be able to destroy the invasion with bombers, subs and battleships.

 

[jUNGLE cHRIS]

one thing subs are good for is taking out enemy supply ships. in WWII Great Britain was starving cuz they couldnt get resources from the US and Canada. there should be something were if there are enemy ships near a port resources cant get to it from other civilizations or somethin...

 

[ronnybiggs]

Flanking seems like a natural promotion for subs. Subs already get a whopping 50% withdraw rate. Add Flanking I and II, and they survive 80% of attacks from their withdraw rate alone.

So the withdrawal chance with Flanking 1 bonus is 50%+10%=60% and not 50%+(50%*10%)=55%? I always wondered about that. That makes it much nicer for eligible units.

 

[ronnybiggs]

Yeah I like what they did with subs here. Reminds me of the old days playing Silent Service on the C64... you could be a menace to transport so long as no destroyers or battleships found you. Of course, you got a 'first strike' but that was it. After that, you either had to high tail it out of there or pray for divine intervention. Or both.

I usually like parking them off an annoying civ's main coastal production cities. That way I know what it's putting out in the ocean. I agree with others that they're good for recon so you can just keep your bigger ships ready at more strategic points.

 

[apopholeus813]

I like to move my navy like in real life- carriers in the middle loaded with fighters, with a ring of destroyers around it with outlying subs. I generally dont even attack with subs, they spot the enemy, i bomb the hell outta them and mop em up with destroyers

 

[meatwad4289]

my subs arepure recon tools, for a fleet though, I'll usually put 2 BattleShips, 3 Destroyers, and a Carrier and attach a Sub to spot out others, Larger Fleets I don't attach the sub, If I build a large fleet I'm in my Navy zone and thats when my Naval Walls get built.. My Subs get assigned to the walls

 

[Older than Dirt]

The only time that I found subs to be very useful was when playing as Britain in the Desert War scenario. I had five of them in Crete after capturing it and used them to sink scores (literally) of Axis battleships and several carriers and destroyers after such were weakened with airstrikes. After they get up to 27 experience points they can be very powerful. They need to be stacked with battleships if they are out of port, because they are very vulnerable to attack. They seem to be of value in very limited circumstances, but they are kind of cute so I usually build one.

 

[ronnybiggs]

I like to move my navy like in real life- carriers in the middle loaded with fighters, with a ring of destroyers around it with outlying subs. I generally dont even attack with subs, they spot the enemy, i bomb the hell outta them and mop em up with destroyers

Do you start humming The Imperial March as you send your flotilla to engage other civs? I love doing that...

 

[ronnybiggs]

I had five of them in Crete after capturing it and used them to sink scores (literally) of Axis battleships and several carriers and destroyers after such were weakened with airstrikes. After they get up to 27 experience points they can be very powerful.

Weakening battleships with fighters... never thought of that. That's a great idea! Esp since you can't really intercept fighters at sea.

I still think subs' main value is their invisibility. Recon is so important in this game, given the AI's penchant for sneak attacks and backstabs...

 

[Lanthar]

I also like using subs in Wolf Packs...I'll give them Flank I and +1 Movement, then spread them out across the sea...making sure they are within helping distance of each other. When they spot enemy ships, the subs converge and sink the convoy before it can reach my cities, then spread back out to reconn the ocean again.

 

[ronnybiggs]

I also like using subs in Wolf Packs...I'll give them Flank I and +1 Movement, then spread them out across the sea...making sure they are within helping distance of each other. When they spot enemy ships, the subs converge and sink the convoy before it can reach my cities, then spread back out to reconn the ocean again.

It's a lot cheaper to have subs waiting by your main rivals' coastal production cities, and park a couple destroyers and battleships off your own main coastal cities. That way, you see their invasion force coming a mile away, and intercept them with an overpowering force in the middle of the ocean. And you don't risk wasting any ships.

 

[Lanthar]

It may be cheaper, but it's not as much fun! I tend to build large navies, especially in the late game. I keep a large destroyer force just far enough from my coasts to clean up any ships that make it past the subs. Fighters and Bombers help with anything that gets through the sub screen, as well.