Suggestions and Requests

[psyblade]

I’ve had the unfortunate experience of having a rival civ assassinate my settled specialists, so maybe my suggestion is coming from a bitter place. Damn it, Russia!
Perhaps national wonders have a special bonus related to the specific great person?
Might be too small (or circumstantial) of a bonus, but national university giving bonuses to settled great scientists can make them less…minor than they already are.

 

[Cacaso]

I don’t know about other peoples’ experience, but settled great people are kind of underpowered (barring special buildings or synergies). Can a settled great person also give gpp?

really the settlement of Great People is very weak. does not pay off when compared to the unique building they give (especially the Academy, manufacturing).

One way to make it stronger would be to actually give GPP for these grat settled units. However, in order not to be an exploit, we could do it in a staggered way with regard to the buildings present in the city and the type of great people, as if it were due to the influence of a legacy left by this great unit. Example, a settled Great scientist would give +1Great Scientist Point per turn in that city if it has a university, +2 if the city has a university and observatory, +3 if the city has a university, observatory, laboratory, and +4 if the city has university, observatory, laboratory, supercomputer.

So the bonus would be scaled throughout the game, not concentrated, which would be an exploit, if it were like a citizen working as a scientist that gives the +3 GPP (plus the percentage increases for buildings).

To prevent these settled great people from being too strong for a very long time, one idea would be to skip the first building in the chain, so that way the GPP points would only be accumulated when the tech that unlocks a certain building is discovered and that building is built in this city, this would already serve to delay the start of obtaining these GPP points, which would not unbalance the game too much as it would postpone the bonuses to a more advanced stage of the game.

Settled Scientist - library(+0), university(+1), observatory(+1), lab (+1), supercomputer(+1).
Settled Merchant - market (+0), bank (+1), Warehouse (+1), department store (+1)
Settled Engineer - Forge(+0), Factory (+1), Industrial Plant (+1), Automated Manufacturing(+1)

 

[need my speed]

That sounds a bit weak and unintiuitive. If you want to do something beyond simply giving a great person some great people points (which seems like a fine idea to me, I think I did the same in my mod, but, unsure), why not simply make each great person give +1 of a yield to a relevant specialist (this seems weaker than generating great people points)? Specialists are already limited by the buildings you put in your post above, so it all works out.

 

[Dracosolon]

I think it's fine if permanent bonuses are weaker than one-time bonuses, and require some effort to make them worthwhile, such as concentrating science infrastructure in a single city, building certain wonders, adopting certain civics, etc.

That's fair, though I have no idea how long it takes for a settled GP to pay off the investment compared to doing something more immediate with them. This is usually compounded by the fact that DoC has a greater focus put on the short term compared to vanilla Civ, not just through UHVs but also because the lifespans of a civ and its neighbors are more dynamic.

 

[Steb]

That's fair, though I have no idea how long it takes for a settled GP to pay off the investment compared to doing something more immediate with them. This is usually compounded by the fact that DoC has a greater focus put on the short term compared to vanilla Civ, not just through UHVs but also because the lifespans of a civ and its neighbors are more dynamic.

Yeah, I also settle great people fairly rarely. But sometimes it's worth it. For instance, there was some discussion on the forum on winning a science victory as Babylon. I did it once, and it involved settling a lot of scientists and other GPs to turn the city of Babylon into a powerhouse over the long term.

 

[Lennon789]

I wish there was more for Great Prophets to do then just build shrines, mass convert cities, or bulb tech. I frequently find myself in positions where I get a Great Prophet and don't really have anything to with them except settle them in a city. Unfortunately, settling Great Prophets because I have no other use for them would lead to a vicious cycle in which these unwanted Great Prophets "pollute" the GP pool, exacerbating the original issue.

Suggestions for more Great Prophet actions:
1. Hurry temples/cathedrals/monasteries
2. Build their own unique GP building, analogous to the Great Scientists' Academy, Great Artists' Museum, etc. In fact, it seems that every Great Person with the exception of the Great Prophets can build their unique building in every city. I understand that this is probably due to the fact that the Holy City Shrine is considered to be the Unique Building for Great prophets, but the issue is that you can only ever build one per city per religion, as compared to something like the Great Merchant's Stock Exchange, which can be built in every city you own. As to the specifics of the name and even function of this proposed new UB for Great Prophets, I don't have any concrete ideas (perhaps someone more creative than myself could come up with something good but not game-breakingly so), but for instance, maybe Christian Great prophets could build "Archbishoprics" (and flavoured names for other religions).
3. Perform a diplomatic mission with a rival civ that follows your state religion, something like a Statesman.

And I'm not necessarily saying they should be granted all or even most of these suggested abilities. I think finding even one more thing for Great prophets to do would help with the "useless Great Prophet" situation.

 

[Dracosolon]

I think Prophets and Priests becoming increasingly irrelevant as the games progress is intended (the opposite of how Engineers become increasingly commonplace). But if we want to give them something to do, my suggestion would be something to do with . This could be as small as a +1 on settled Great Prophets, to mirror the +1 bonus brought on by Great Artists, or an actual Charity building (which could have both a and a effect), representing the humanitarian efforts some Prophets are known for.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

I think Prophets and Priests becoming increasingly irrelevant as the games progress is intended (the opposite of how Engineers become increasingly commonplace). But if we want to give them something to do, my suggestion would be something to do with . This could be as small as a +1 on settled Great Prophets, to mirror the +1 bonus brought on by Great Artists, or an actual Charity building (which could have both a and a effect), representing the humanitarian efforts some Prophets are known for.

In addition to being a nice use case for Prophets, I like how this could impact gameplay in SE Asia specifically. Khmer & Burma go heavy into religion and are rewarded with the health they need to overcome their jungles.

 

[Dracosolon]

It would be neat if Forts could have an additional incentive to be built besides pure defense (especially on the new map, where the increased space might make them even more irrelevant). I'm thinking additional and from Vassalage and Manorialism, followed by a bonus from techs like Heritage and Tourism.

 

[Publicola]

I think Prophets and Priests becoming increasingly irrelevant as the games progress is intended (the opposite of how Engineers become increasingly commonplace). But if we want to give them something to do, my suggestion would be something to do with . This could be as small as a +1 on settled Great Prophets, to mirror the +1 bonus brought on by Great Artists, or an actual Charity building (which could have both a and a effect), representing the humanitarian efforts some Prophets are known for.

That idea actually solves a difficulty I've had with another suggestion I've been playing around with in my head: the idea of adding a unique Religious Order for each religion in the game. DOC is such an improvement over the base game, in shifting religions from one-size-fits-all where the only difference is a unique name for each religion's shrine (and I don't mean giving unique names to the generic buildings like temples/monasteries/cathedrals) by adding so many new wonders that are attached to each religion.

One of the things I like about Civ 6 is the customizability of faiths with different beliefs: separate benefits for the religion founder, follower civs & cities, worship buildings, and spread 'enhancers'. I don't think we need to take it nearly that far, but I feel it should be possible to differentiate religions a bit more. Sword of Islam adds relics and unique titles; RFC Europe gives special bonuses for each religion based on a civ's 'faith points'. I've been wondering if it'd be feasible to split the different, and add a unique bonus for each religion, but one that requires a bit of extra effort so it's not quite a freebie like RFCE.

What if Great Prophets could create an 'enhancer' to each religion? I'm specifically thinking of something like SOI's use of corporations. Once the Shrine has been built and after a pre-req tech discovered, a Great Person could create a 'religious order' for each faith -- such as Sufism for Islam, either Dominican or Franciscan for Catholicism, Zen for Taoism (technically should be Buddhism, but it's Chinese-flavored Buddhism heavily influenced by Taoist ideas), etc. Each of these Orders would give a small bonus on its own wherever it spreads, and unlock a unique building in its HQ city (e.g., 'Shaolin Temple' for Zen, 'Franciscan hospital' for Franciscan, etc.) with a bigger benefit.

I'm still wrestling with some of these ideas trying to get them straight and figure out a way to get them to work seamlessly with the game, but the idea of pairing the unique Religious Orders with each faith is really appealing to me.

 

[Cacaso]

I think Prophets and Priests becoming increasingly irrelevant as the games progress is intended (the opposite of how Engineers become increasingly commonplace). But if we want to give them something to do, my suggestion would be something to do with . This could be as small as a +1 on settled Great Prophets, to mirror the +1 bonus brought on by Great Artists, or an actual Charity building (which could have both a and a effect), representing the humanitarian efforts some Prophets are known for.

We could create a unique building for the Great prophet as well (similar to the academy for the great scientist), which would be the "FAMOUS PILGRIMAGE SPOT"/"RELICARY" (or some other better name)

Places like Sanctuary of Our Lady of Fátima (Portugal), Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela (Spain), Mount Kailash (Tibet/China), Bodhgaya (India), are famous for having large movements of pilgrimage, for religious reasons.

As these movements generate a large flow of people, this generates wealth through trade/accommodation. So the effect of this building would be to create an additional +1 trade route, connecting the city to the Holy City of that civilization's faith. Plus a small diplomacy boost with the civ that controls the holy city of your civ's faith.

This trade route should have a high percentage factor so that it is attractive. as there are usually no trade routes connecting your cities to the holy city of your faith as there are stronger trade routes.

If that +1 trade route effect alone still seems weak, maybe you could add a +2 Health/+2 Happiness effect. Something that would be similar to the RFCE Reliquary building, which gives a relic happiness resource, but this resource is only valid in the city that generates this resource (so to simplify it would be better to already give the +2 happiness bonus directly)

 

[Lennon789]

Some very interesting ideas in this thread!

 

[freethink]

That idea actually solves a difficulty I've had with another suggestion I've been playing around with in my head: the idea of adding a unique Religious Order for each religion in the game. DOC is such an improvement over the base game, in shifting religions from one-size-fits-all where the only difference is a unique name for each religion's shrine (and I don't mean giving unique names to the generic buildings like temples/monasteries/cathedrals) by adding so many new wonders that are attached to each religion.

One of the things I like about Civ 6 is the customizability of faiths with different beliefs: separate benefits for the religion founder, follower civs & cities, worship buildings, and spread 'enhancers'. I don't think we need to take it nearly that far, but I feel it should be possible to differentiate religions a bit more. Sword of Islam adds relics and unique titles; RFC Europe gives special bonuses for each religion based on a civ's 'faith points'. I've been wondering if it'd be feasible to split the different, and add a unique bonus for each religion, but one that requires a bit of extra effort so it's not quite a freebie like RFCE.

What if Great Prophets could create an 'enhancer' to each religion? I'm specifically thinking of something like SOI's use of corporations. Once the Shrine has been built and after a pre-req tech discovered, a Great Person could create a 'religious order' for each faith -- such as Sufism for Islam, either Dominican or Franciscan for Catholicism, Zen for Taoism (technically should be Buddhism, but it's Chinese-flavored Buddhism heavily influenced by Taoist ideas), etc. Each of these Orders would give a small bonus on its own wherever it spreads, and unlock a unique building in its HQ city (e.g., 'Shaolin Temple' for Zen, 'Franciscan hospital' for Franciscan, etc.) with a bigger benefit.

I'm still wrestling with some of these ideas trying to get them straight and figure out a way to get them to work seamlessly with the game, but the idea of pairing the unique Religious Orders with each faith is really appealing to me.

This had been proposed years ago to simulate Mesoamerican religions that are now mostly represented through unique civ abilities and wonders. I also remember that ROC Classical World and Realism Invictus gives unique bonuses strictly by religion (I remember that in Classical World Taoism brings happy faces with forests)

 

[psyblade]

A pilgrimage building built by great prophets sounds like a good way to bring parity between great prophets and other great people.
Religion has a mechanical niche in Civ. Where production (engineers) gives hammers and trade bonus (manufactury), science gives beakers and sometimes health, religion could give trade routes and passive spread of faith to synergize with how great shrines make religious cities optimal as trade centers (jesuit centers for catholics, pilgrim sites for hinduism, etc).
It's a simpler solution compared to coding reliquaries from SoI or adding organizations like the jesuits for example.

 

[freethink]

A pilgrimage building built by great prophets sounds like a good way to bring parity between great prophets and other great people.
Religion has a mechanical niche in Civ. Where production (engineers) gives hammers and trade bonus (manufactury), science gives beakers and sometimes health, religion could give trade routes and passive spread of faith to synergize with how great shrines make religious cities optimal as trade centers (jesuit centers for catholics, pilgrim sites for hinduism, etc).
It's a simpler solution compared to coding reliquaries from SoI or adding organizations like the jesuits for example.

Could Great Prophets go on pilgrimages to holy cities, I wonder? I realize this is a little different from what you mentioned?

 

[Just an idea]

I thought about a way to make Isolationism civic more useful. Currently it's usually detrimental unless you have Porcelain Tower wonder.

I think there would be more situations where running Isolationism would be useful if long distance trade routes would be bit harder to get? Currently trade routes can pass through neutral countries even without Open Borders agreement. If neutral territories blocked trade routes Isolationism might be more useful.

Let's take Japan as an example. Player manages to get enough Open Borders agreements to get scout to Europe. Now scout can stay there and player gets benefit from high value trade routes for most of the game. However if neutral countries blocked trade routes; Mongols take over China and Korea and don't want to Open Borders. Player no longer benefits from those trade routes and Isolationism suddenly looks like a viable option. Once player has Optics and enough map knowledge to get those trade routes active again through the ocean, it might again be beneficial to switch away from isolationism.

 

[Efim]

Is there a submod for Australia?

 

[MrCassata]

Hi. First of all, great mod! However, there are a few things I'd like to see changed:

1. When an AI civ collapses, it would be great that instead of becoming solely independent city-states, it would become a rump state limited to its core and non-contested historical areas, with conquered civs rising up from their own core areas. That would align more closely with the behaviour we offer the player. It would make things more realistic (for example the Soviet Union didn't just become a bunch of independent city-states), and the endgame a bit less lonely. It would also mean someone would be there to trade items from wonders such as Graceland and Hollywood.

2. I noticed that some civs won't vassalize with "You've grown too powerful for us" as a stated reason. Make that stop please. I like vassals.

 

[Dracosolon]

Is there a submod for Australia?

It's in Merjin's mod and Civilization Reborn at least but those would be pretty outdated and buggy by now, I would think.

1. When an AI civ collapses, it would be great that instead of becoming solely independent city-states, it would become a rump state limited to its core and non-contested historical areas, with conquered civs rising up from their own core areas. That would align more closely with the behaviour we offer the player. It would make things more realistic (for example the Soviet Union didn't just become a bunch of independent city-states), and the endgame a bit less lonely. It would also mean someone would be there to trade items from wonders such as Graceland and Hollywood.

Isn't "collapse to core" something that's more likely once Nationalism is discovered? Anyway, given the mechanics in place to keep too many civs (more than is efficient for player slots) from staying alive by collapsing them, maybe there could be something to make collapsing AIs more likely to spawn reborn civs if the number of civs go below a certain threshold. Maybe something like that already exists though.

 

[Cacaso]

The Mighty Aztecs sent a spaceship to meet God Quetzalcóatl, who, according to legend, flew to heaven
View attachment 647495

Leo, Looking at Banzay13's message on "The "OMG! Look what happened in DoC!" Thread", I remembered something I find very uncomfortable in the MOD. Which is when you complete all parts of the Spaceship and launch it, you need to keep pressing enter to give the Next Turn! over and over again, sometimes reaching 20 or 16 turns. And I think that's kind of a waste of time, because you're just waiting for the spaceship to arrive and the passing of turns takes a long time in the late game.

So I would like to propose that this waiting time be removed and give victory in the turn in which the spaceship launches, or at least a large reduction in the number of these turns until the arrival (maybe only 3 or 4 turns), or even making a mechanism that is like this for each booster part you add to the spaceship reduces the number of turns that the trip lasts so that if all available parts are produced, ScienceWIN is reached exactly in the turn that the launch takes place or just a few very few turns later (either the next turn or just 2 turns later).

Because I really think these almost 16 turns are a bit of a waste of time, which I think could be removed without harming the MOD in any way and it would be better.

PS: I think the space race represented in the DoC is really cool. I love winning that way. If, in order to remove these waiting shifts, it is necessary to add some more steps/more pieces, I think that would be interesting too.