Tech Tree Discussion

Giant or Gigantic Archipelagos or Islands maps with no more than 9 AI. Plenty of room to explore and expand and when you do meet your neighbor he's not a weak push over that crowded maps give you.

@Sgtslick,
oh also abortion clinic as a building would be good (not prehistoric hehe) less revolt sentiment, +happiness.
I hope this Never, ever makes it into this mod! Less revolt sentiment, + happiness??? :nono: :/

JosEPh
 
sorry forgot there are americans present :lol: i kid,
after I wrote this i thought - actually revolt unrest could maybe go both ways + or -
I think it'd be a good building coz it would affect growth too.
 
It could have + unrest if running one of the more restrictive relgios civics or relgious education.
No - unrest, but + :) in cities that complain about "it´s too crowded" .
But nevertheless I agree wit ls612: Such a touchy subject sould stay out of the main C2C. Maybe as a mod mod, like the Nazi flavour civ, but not in the main mod.
 
i don't really care either way, I just find myself curious. Would people be offended that its a building? Can't they just not build it? Choice is one of the great things about this mod and sometimes people choose options such as whether to run slavery or not because they want the best for there people and don't want to be a cruel leader irrespective of whether its the best strategy or not. I sometimes fall into this category. Wouldn't therefore controversial options such as abortion clinics enhance gameplay?
Is it that people would be offended by its presence? I guess i don't understand whats so offensive about it when it comes down to it. Personally I think its offensive to not allow abortion but I certainly don't make a song and dance about it either way. *re-reads last sentence :mischief:
 
i don't really care either way, I just find myself curious. Would people be offended that its a building? Can't they just not build it? Choice is one of the great things about this mod and sometimes people choose options such as whether to run slavery or not because they want the best for there people and don't want to be a cruel leader irrespective of whether its the best strategy or not. I sometimes fall into this category. Wouldn't therefore controversial options such as abortion clinics enhance gameplay?
Is it that people would be offended by its presence? I guess i don't understand whats so offensive about it when it comes down to it. Personally I think its offensive to not allow abortion but I certainly don't make a song and dance about it either way. *re-reads last sentence :mischief:

I think the problem is that it is closer to the players lives then salvery. Just like abstract fascism is not the same as having Hitler ingame.
I agree with you that civ is about the possibilities, and so having the possibility of running a Gulag building fascist empire based on slave labour should be there.
But when some people would be offended by certain content ( or not legaly be allowed to play it because of content) it just should stay out of the core mod. If not a mod mod, at least a module, off by default.
In the case of prostitution: I would actually turn this component on in my games. ( If it is well implemented ;) ). But with such a huge topic in todays western societes ( and maybe others as well, not sure) one has to be carefull.
 
I'm filling in my Tech Tree and I noticed Conglomerates is still ERA_TRANSHUMAN in the XML, but its grid position says (and what I suggested) that it should be ERA_MODERN. Does anyone else agree?
 
The mine warfare stuff is still on my list of things to do. There are a couple of problems to do with converting to the outcome system especially as you activate the mine then it just sits there until an enemy unit enters the same plot when the action happens which could be 1000's of turns after you do the activate. Most of the units are converted and the AI for placing and hunting is available in python but needs some work.
 
I read through the list of new technologies to update my Tech Tree and I noticed a few redundancies.

Critical Thought (Requires Clockworks AND Divine Right AND Education): Education is redundant (Education - Political Philosophy - Divine Right)

Enlightenment (Requires Critical Thought AND Printing Press AND Romanticism AND Social Contract): Printing Press is redundant (Printing Press - Humanism - Social Contract)

Patent Rights (Requires Corporation AND Nationalism): Nationalism is redundant (Nationalism - Constitution - Corporation)

Also, any idea when Rudder is going to be added? We had discussed it before, but it's not in yet.
 
Why make Nitroglycerin special tech?

It isn't tech, it is chemical compound, one of many other Explosives (which we already have as tech and basically Explosives became potential after nitroglycerene, before that it was basically large quantities of gunpowder).

It just makes no sense.

[edit] other new techs are almost all concepts of other techs, which we already have ingame, for example:

Critical Thought is concept of Scientific Method

Enlightenment is part of Education. I honestly don't understand what makes it outstanding separate tech.

Patent Rights - this one okay.

Emancipation and Women's Suffrage - aren't those basically same? Also, i think Emancipation is XX century concept. Also, we already have Women Suffrage wonder.

Minority Rights - isn't this one part of Representative Democracy?

There are civics and national/world wonders and buildings which should be in place of those (and some are). There is difference between buildings and techs - we technically can make every building separate tech, but i don't think it is the right direction.

Techs, especially with lately introduced increased research times (300-400% etc., which i personally like in my games), should be something gross, a key points in game, like Machinery, Feudalism etc.

Another issue - those listed techs are parts of western liberal kind of states. What if i run teocratic, or fascist or communist state? Do i still have to research Rights of Minorities in that case? (btw, i run caste in my games till the end of game, the liberal civic is too weak).

Just my 2 cents, sorry for posting in wrong topic ...

These are mostly techs from Realism Inviticus, except for Minority Rights, Emacipation and Women's Suffrage.

1. Nitroglycerene is made separate in the difference between a fuse bomb/grenade and dynamite/TNT.

2. In RI they had a scientific method tech (scientific experiment) and critical thought. note that CT come sometime before SM.

3. Enlightenment again is a separate tech in RI they have University instead of Education.

4. Patent Rights was made so we can have a Patent Office building.

5. Emancipation and Women's Suffrage are different and come at different times. Emancipation is dealing with the end of slavery, American Civil War and Emaciation Proclamation. This tech will make slavery civic very hard to use.

6. Women's Suffrage while influenced by the end of slavery is a movement to itself. The wonder will be moved here and possibly new buildings.

7. Minority Rights is not the same as representative democracy. In early US history we had this and still minorities and women could not vote. This is all to do with the civil rights movement.

8. Don't think of it as making a tech for civic or building, think of it as those civics and buildings having a more fitting tech to be enabled at. One that can also be used to make new buildings and/or civics.

9. Just because they are empty now doesn't mean they will not be filled in over time. Also with the addition of science and hammer producing buildings techs go through faster than they did before because there is a lot more to go through. Thus reducing huge tech jumps, more like a steady flow of small chanced (as in real life). I would much rather have the tech tree work like a ramp than steep stairs.

10. Discovering the tech and applying the tech are 2 different things. For instance the leaders of North Korea is well aware Western culture and its freedoms, however they do not apply it to running their government.

11. I also agree that Liberal is too weak. It would be nice to make some of the later civics more appealing. Not in a way they were the one you HAD to pick but in a way that it would be better for a specific type of play style.
 
Critical thinking should be an ancient era tech rather than renaissance. The philosophy has been around far longer. The enlightenment is an European event that could most likely be described by civic changes. Emancipation as an end to slavery is mostly a issue of US history. The end of slavery was really not that big a deal to most of the world.
 
@Strategyonly: I've noticed you have been adding several techs in the Industrial and Rennaisance Eras. I think that this is fine, but Rennaisance and Industrial eras have plenty of techs, and the Medieval and Ancient eras have far less, Medieval only has 36 techs:eek:.

I think that if there any Medieval techs that you have planned you should add those. It makes things slightly easier in the Gamespeed balancing, not to have one era have less than half the techs of others.
 
@Strategyonly: I've noticed you have been adding several techs in the Industrial and Rennaisance Eras. I think that this is fine, but Rennaisance and Industrial eras have plenty of techs, and the Medieval and Ancient eras have far less, Medieval only has 36 techs:eek:.

I think that if there any Medieval techs that you have planned you should add those. It makes things slightly easier in the Gamespeed balancing, not to have one era have less than half the techs of others.

These are by my request. In fact most of the time I am the one asking SO to add techs. Only a few techs have been added as a request from DH, Vokarya and others, but all go through me and in turn through SO when he adds them.

If you have ideas for the Medieval and Ancient era techs please post your ideas. Note that it was called the Dark Ages for a reason.

In short just like how I ask you to make units and promotions I ask SO to make techs (among other things). As SO says, I am the "Idea Guy".
 
These are by my request. In fact most of the time I am the one asking SO to add techs. Only a few techs have been added as a request from DH, Vokarya and others, but all go through me and in turn through SO when he adds them.

If you have ideas for the Medieval and Ancient era techs please post your ideas. Note that it was called the Dark Ages for a reason.

In short just like how I ask you to make units and promotions I ask SO to make techs (among other things). As SO says, I am the "Idea Guy".

OK, I'll make up a list and post it here hopefully "soon". I am approaching finals in school, so my time for modding is getting a tad constricted.
 
@Strategyonly: I've noticed you have been adding several techs in the Industrial and Rennaisance Eras. I think that this is fine, but Rennaisance and Industrial eras have plenty of techs, and the Medieval and Ancient eras have far less, Medieval only has 36 techs:eek:.

37 with Alchemy. I asked for Rudder in the early Medieval as well. There isn't a good naval-related tech between early-Classical Ship Building and mid-Medieval Optics.

[I think that if there any Medieval techs that you have planned you should add those. It makes things slightly easier in the Gamespeed balancing, not to have one era have less than half the techs of others.

Industrial is starting to get close to Prehistoric, since Prehistoric has 88. Transhuman needs help too. It's at 49. I'm wondering if maybe the "Lunar" techs should be moved back to the Transhuman Era (except Lunar Megastructures) and save Galactic for interplanetary/interstellar technologies.
 
37 with Alchemy. I asked for Rudder in the early Medieval as well. There isn't a good naval-related tech between early-Classical Ship Building and mid-Medieval Optics.



Industrial is starting to get close to Prehistoric, since Prehistoric has 88. Transhuman needs help too. It's at 49. I'm wondering if maybe the "Lunar" techs should be moved back to the Transhuman Era (except Lunar Megastructures) and save Galactic for interplanetary/interstellar technologies.

Its kind of HARD to NOT have alot of techs in Prehistoric times, isn't that really where MOST things started??:)
 
37 with Alchemy. I asked for Rudder in the early Medieval as well. There isn't a good naval-related tech between early-Classical Ship Building and mid-Medieval Optics.

I second the rudder tech. We need to move some of the naval units around a bit as some are not that useful at the moment.
 
I second the rudder tech. We need to move some of the naval units around a bit as some are not that useful at the moment.

How could we implement a raft type unit being alot sooner, its kind of out of the way now, unless you take the upper tech tree portion, then you get way behind on the mid-level techs and get 10 or so techs behind the AI??
 
How could we implement a raft type unit being alot sooner, its kind of out of the way now, unless you take the upper tech tree portion, then you get way behind on the mid-level techs and get 10 or so techs behind the AI??

:confused:

Rudder comes after Shipbuilding (= building the skeleton of the ship before the hull rather than the other way round). It will be useful for splitting up the triremes from the decaremes etc..
 
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