Terrorist attack in France at a newspaper office: at least 11 dead.

[Cheetah]

Well, this wasn't merely an attack: These were executions.

The assailants knew exactly who they were going for. They spoke fluent French, and they mentioned their victims first names. It seems they didn't mind leaving others alive, as they apparently didn't try to kill everyone there. Killing the wounded police officer whom was lying on the street was also really cold blooded.

If just one more attack like this happens in Europe, freedom of expression will be severely threatened.

I don't like to throw around the 'terror' descriptions all the time, so I've avoided using it so far. Continuously using it tends to remove it's meaning. But this definitely fits into the definition of terror. Lots of people are actually scared now, and it seems they have reason to be.

 

[luiz]

Just recently in Turkey there was a suicide bomb that done by Marxist activist, however non of the people here in Turkey or internationally try to related the event with Marxist movement in general, and it will be never be the topic. And all these sort of things are happen, perpetuated by various radical element from various ideological background, but it is not representing the whole people who hold this particular ideology in general.

However it is different if it is related to Muslims. Any single act that are committed by the random Muslims individual or group, makes most of the whole Muslim population feel responsible, worry and feel punished by the action they never did or endorse in the first place. And their religion been put to blame and question. And not rare they illogically apologizing for the act that they never committed in the first place. In this sense a repetition reminder from someone like Useless or other is valid, to put everyone in the right perspective to react on the issue, and not to use this event to agitate more resentment and generalization to the Muslims.

That's all I wanted to say.

And what I wanted to say is that if and when people or populist politicians of whomever start using this even as an excuse to discriminate against muslims, then will be the time and place for such reminders. Not while there are 12 unburied corpses of victims of muslim extremism.

 

[aelf]

And the moderate adherents have to accept a little responsibility for this phenomenon.

It's rather disgusting that your first reaction is to accuse others of being responsible for extremists instead of sympathizing with 12 people killed by intolerant monsters. You don't care about the actual victims, just about "terrorist sympathisers" who fit into your little worldview of who the "enemy" is. So the enemy is not Islamic terrorists, but rather the Muslims that do get funny looks on the street. Bah.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The scariest forms of Islam have a terrific weakness in that they assume the infallibility of the Qur'an. It's a lot easier for Islam to be benign if that's not held to be true.

To me, this seems true of every religion. It's telling to me that the more literal-minded and fundamentalist a religious person is, the more dangerous they are.

 

[Smote]

I could see the argument for terrorism if I thought my family and I would win a place in the afterlife for eternity too. It's entirely rational, but based on false premises. What is this life but a wink compared to the eternity of the afterlife?

 

[Cheetah]

Just recently in Turkey there was a suicide bomb that done by Marxist activist, however non of the people here in Turkey or internationally try to related the event with Marxist movement in general, and it will be never be the topic.

Isn't that mostly because that attack instead is attributed to the Kurds? (Or am I completely misinformed? I heard about that bombing, and I think there was another attack a few days before that too? One of them were of some Kurdish group IIRC?)

 

[luiz]

Well, this wasn't merely an attack: These were executions.

The assailants knew exactly who they were going for. They spoke fluent French, and they mentioned their victims first names. It seems they didn't mind leaving others alive, as they apparently didn't try to kill everyone there. Killing the wounded police officer whom was lying on the street was also really cold blooded.

If just one more attack like this happens in Europe, freedom of expression will be severely threatened.

I don't like to throw around the 'terror' descriptions all the time, so I've avoided using it so far. Continuously using it tends to remove it's meaning. But this definitely fits into the definition of terror. Lots of people are actually scared now, and it seems they have reason to be.

I think freedom of expression is already damaged beyond repair in several European countries. Let's be honest, who here would be willing to publish a Mohammed cartoon in a a country like France or Holland nowadays? I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't write it, and if owned the magazine I wouldn't publish it, and if I worked for a magazine that published it I would quit. Not because I care about offending radicals, but because I don't want to die.

 

[Oruc]

Before the inevitable comments, I just want to say these scum no more represent Muslims then the Lord's Resistance Army or the Westboro Baptist Church represents christians.

I thought the "not all x" response was generally frowned upon

 

[Josu]

R.I.P.

My sympathies to the relatives and friends

 

[Farm Boy]

To me, this seems true of every religion. It's telling to me that the more literal-minded and fundamentalist a religious person is, the more dangerous they are.

No. We lose a crap ton of people to murder over pride, turf, drugs, sex, the US military industrial complex(if you like), power struggles, vying over wealth, religion is one type of thing that can drive people to violence. I don't even know if it's a particularly dominant one, or if it's instead just uniquely susceptible to being used as a cheap excuse for the others.

 

[warpus]

Man.. Some people are just too crazy to be allowed into liberal democracies. I'm all for immigration and open borders and all, but I'm not against much stricter standards about who we let into our beautiful countries. Would that have stopped this - I don't know, maybe not.. I just don't know what else to say..

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Why so much attention to "terrorist attacks" always? Who are more irrational, terrorists or those shouting about them being overly obsessed with the topic of terrorism? I say the latter.

 

[Recon Rover]

It's rather disgusting that your first reaction is to accuse others of being responsible for extremists instead of sympathizing with 12 people killed by intolerant monsters. You don't care about the actual victims, just about "terrorist sympathisers" who fit into your little worldview of who the "enemy" is. So the enemy is not Islamic terrorists, but rather the Muslims that do get funny looks on the street. Bah.

And you know I have not sympathized with the victims how?

 

[HannibalBarka]

And the moderate adherents have to accept a little responsibility for this phenomenon.

Why would they?

 

[H4run]

Isn't that mostly because that attack instead is attributed to the Kurds? (Or am I completely misinformed? I heard about that bombing, and I think there was another attack a few days before that too? One of them were of some Kurdish group IIRC?)

What I see in the news the particular attack that was done in Sultan Ahmet turizm sube mudurlugu (tourism office) was done by Marxist-Leninist group DHKP-C (suicide bombing). While maybe the one that you mention is the attack that happen in Sirnak Cizre in east part of Turkey done by Kurdish nationalist group YDG-H (quite brutal civilian house been burned while the family inside, but thanks God they all save) or the one that happen in Dolma Bahce and I'm not sure if he is a Kurdish or Leftist radical militia.

 

[EgonSpengler]

No. We lose a crap ton of people to murder over pride, turf, drugs, sex, the US military industrial complex(if you like), power struggles, vying over wealth, religion is one type of thing that can drive people to violence. I don't even know if it's a particularly dominant one, or if it's instead just uniquely susceptible to being used as a cheap excuse for the others.

I didn't say religion was the only thing that drove people to violence. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[El_Machinae]

Not really, unless you're talking really loosely. Refusal to accept scientific knowledge may be scary, frustrating, and stupid if you've built your worldview from scientific knowledge, but it is not sufficient to bring fault to bear on somebody unwilling to murder people for a cartoon because somebody else is willing to murder over a cartoon. At the point we are willing to assign culpability that broadly I might was well be accusing you of culpability for that fella that shot up the capital since you participate in a governance moderate enough to tolerate those of his creed. No?

Yeah, it's very difficult dissociating cause and effect. A subset of the population is psychopathic, and they'll do evil stuff regardless. But, psychopaths will also rally behind causes. Young males have a very easy time making someone into 'the other' and then becoming violent patriots: nations, sports teams, religions, etc.

But, there's no doubt that Islam interpretation is involved in cases like these. Unlike many other 'terrorist' activities, it's not even clear how this is (misguided, maybe) defense of the Ummah. It's more an assault against the enemies of Islam. These are really actually different things (though it's tough to tease out the differences in practice).

I stand by the idea that 'fundamentalist' interpretations of the Qur'an make it easier to hold an 'AK-47 cartoonists' workview. "Fundamentalist" not being the right word, obviously.

I said in my first post that it's a numbers game. The more fundamentalists there are, the more AK-47ers there will be. And YEC literalism helps maintain fundamentalist propaganda.

 

[Domen]

Am I really reading this - Aelf telling someone not to blame collectives, but individuals?

Now that's something new, not so long time ago he blamed entire nations for war crimes.

 

[Recon Rover]

Why would they?

They, usually, both share a book that contains some pretty terrible ideas.

I don't think moderates should act surprised when someone decides that perhaps stoning a woman to death, for example, really is the right thing to do.

 

[Steph]

YEC doesn't exist in France, so it has little impact...