Texas Judge Strikes Down Obama’s Affordable Care Act as Unconstitutional

[Patine]

Looks like the problem is that you have too many corrupt POLITICIANS OF ALL PARTIES.

Allow me to correct that statement for you.

 

[Tristan_C]

Why do you think so many self-identifying Republicans currently realize that a public option was preferable, but this discussion wasn't in the party ten years ago? Because the wingnuts were in charge, that's why.

That is an odd declaration. I do not keep up-to-the-minute on polling but haven't republicans been campaigning since the Carter administration on the refrain that government is not part of the solution, but part of the problem? To get elected, GOP candidates have to associate themselves with small government to the voters, no matter what they actually are. I can't imagine the voter base itself abandoning such a central idea.

The reasoning behind the government problem is simple enough: if you flush consumers with cash, the price goes up. We observe this with student loans, medicaid, and subsidized mortgages, and the resulting bubbles in prices. This is bad for people who do not qualify for the handouts; in healthcare these were the "uninsured" who were indeed targeted by the ACA as next-in-line at the trough.

Inevitably the private sector is blamed for the rise in prices caused by the government infusing people with cash. Attitudes like the one you allude to via "every centrist and their dog knew that a public option was the way to go," are frontloaded by the media as the popular and correct attitude to have, so the government gets empowered deepen its involvement, and these problems continue to worsen.

 

[onejayhawk]

Damn. Who expected sound economic theory in this discussion?

J

 

[FriendlyFire]

The reasoning behind the government problem is simple enough: if you flush consumers with cash, the price goes up.

EDIT: Clearly the problem with high medical cost is the consumer has too much money /s



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[Estebonrober]

That is an odd declaration. I do not keep up-to-the-minute on polling but haven't republicans been campaigning since the Carter administration on the refrain that government is not part of the solution, but part of the problem? To get elected, GOP candidates have to associate themselves with small government to the voters, no matter what they actually are. I can't imagine the voter base itself abandoning such a central idea.

The reasoning behind the government problem is simple enough: if you flush consumers with cash, the price goes up. We observe this with student loans, medicaid, and subsidized mortgages, and the resulting bubbles in prices. This is bad for people who do not qualify for the handouts; in healthcare these were the "uninsured" who were indeed targeted by the ACA as next-in-line at the trough.

Inevitably the private sector is blamed for the rise in prices caused by the government infusing people with cash. Attitudes like the one you allude to via "every centrist and their dog knew that a public option was the way to go," are frontloaded by the media as the popular and correct attitude to have, so the government gets empowered deepen its involvement, and these problems continue to worsen.

NO NO NO NO NO Thats not how this works. You are so wrong I can't even. . . A Public option is the best way to properly insure all citizens to some extent for healthcare (which should be considered a right in the 21st bloody century) and benefit from economy of scale and spread of risk.

Healthcare inflation has outpaced general inflation for the last 50 years. This isn't the ACA causing a sudden increase in per person inflation (that is actually down) its an increase in overall because more people are getting services at . . .viola a better scale. The reality of public spending driving costs up is complicated at best. Its going to depend on the market of interest and its dynamics.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...s-faster-than-general-economic-inflation_2017

In short the bad faith governing of republicans (run it bad and then point at how bad its run) is the biggest problem I have with them. I used to vote for them, but they don't even try at being stewards anymore. Its a joke.

 

[innonimatu]

Allow me to correct that statement for you.

True. But the other party was supposed to be the business aka corrupt party...

 

[Patine]

True. But the other party was supposed to be the business aka corrupt party...

Benjamin Franklin's idea (probably sarcastically) of a Party of Virtue and a Party of Vice as his proposed two-party system never REALLY did get off the ground, you know.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Yea, you basically newer found anyone willing to fund a virtue party.

 

[Broken_Erika]

You could always go for a Sensible Party and a Silly Party...

 

[onejayhawk]

You could always go for a Sensible Party and a Silly Party...

Crayola would sue for Copyright infringement. I suppose you could still make the Republicans the Sensible party, but it doesn't fit very well.

J

 

[Tristan_C]

NO NO NO NO NO Thats not how this works. You are so wrong I can't even. . . A Public option is the best way to properly insure all citizens to some extent for healthcare (which should be considered a right in the 21st bloody century) and benefit from economy of scale and spread of risk.

It's basic supply and demand. Adding money from outside drives up demand, and the price tracks demand. There are myriad influences on price, such as the supply-side effects you mention in this quote, and so I'll acknowledge to you that a rise in prices is not inevitable due to any one of hundreds of other issues. But there is no question that subsidies to the demand side exert upward pressure on prices. They always do that. It doesn't matter if you think health care is a human right; someone has to supply it. As I said earlier, all but 5% of the 75% increase in health care jobs over the past three decades has been paper-pushers. They are needed to administer health plans and deal with other administrators. There's an economy of scale for you.

 

[Patine]

Crayola would sue for Copyright infringement. I suppose you could still make the Republicans the Sensible party, but it doesn't fit very well.

J

I'll bite. In what ways at all are the Republicans even a tentative, ill-fitting try for the "Sensible" Party?

 

[JollyRoger]

I'll bite. In what ways at all are the Republicans even a tentative, ill-fitting try for the "Sensible" Party?

Your bite will be raised to a swallow.

 

[Zelig]

What jobs in healthcare add value? The whole thing always struck me as a scam. "I'll make you live longer" is the most impossible to prove product claim ever made.

Well I just got a tetanus vaccine. I got quite a bit of value out of that.

 

[Estebonrober]

It's basic supply and demand. Adding money from outside drives up demand, and the price tracks demand. There are myriad influences on price, such as the supply-side effects you mention in this quote, and so I'll acknowledge to you that a rise in prices is not inevitable due to any one of hundreds of other issues. But there is no question that subsidies to the demand side exert upward pressure on prices. They always do that. It doesn't matter if you think health care is a human right; someone has to supply it. As I said earlier, all but 5% of the 75% increase in health care jobs over the past three decades has been paper-pushers. They are needed to administer health plans and deal with other administrators. There's an economy of scale for you.

Yea administrative overhead is a huge issue; with tertiary education as well, at least on that we can agree.

Subsidies don't always push prices up when the subsidies come with price controls. We've used them in the past, we should use them now. I'd suggest using them to limit the rate of growth in pay outs for services. Over time this will bring us back down to the global average.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well I just got a tetanus vaccine. I got quite a bit of value out of that.

Yeah, because without question if you hadn't that tetanus woulda got you tomorrow, right?

 

[Zelig]

Yeah, because without question if you hadn't that tetanus woulda got you tomorrow, right?

Well, no, the value isn't the cost of tetanus, it's the cost of tetanus * the probability of being infected during the duration of the shot. It's the perfect black swan event to guard against, potential downside impact is very high, and cost of prevention is very low.

Conversely, "here's $10 to double your odds of getting tetanus in the next decade" is a pretty bad deal.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, no, the value isn't the cost of tetanus, it's the cost of tetanus * the probability of being infected during the duration of the shot. It's the perfect black swan event to guard against, potential downside impact is very high, and cost of prevention is very low.

Conversely, "here's $10 to double your odds of getting tetanus in the next decade" is a pretty bad deal.

I'll take it, and another ten for doubling my odds of being hit by a meteor. And another ten for doubling my odds of being eaten by a shark. And another ten for doubling my odds of being trampled by a zebra. If you are willing to make all these payments I can keep going until you run out of money.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I'll take it, and another ten for doubling my odds of being hit by a meteor. And another ten for doubling my odds of being eaten by a shark. And another ten for doubling my odds of being trampled by a zebra. If you are willing to make all these payments I can keep going until you run out of money.

That would make for an awesome obituary.
"With great sadness we announce the passing of Tim; Who was struck by a meteor while being eaten by a shark while getting trampled by a zebra and blasted by a Fighter-Jet, Attack Helicopter, IED and UFO, and mauled by a cougar, grizzly bear, tiger, lynx, chinchilla, a pack of rabid hamsters, struck by a clown car, and a racing car, and a bus, run over by a tank, and a truck, and a baby carridge, and a hamster-race-car, having choked on a chicken bone, and a pretzel, poisoned by anthrax, sarin, VX-gas, Mustard gas and broccolli, and losing his battle with tetanus, cancer, hepatitus-A, hepatitus-B, hepatitus-C, Hepatius-Q, rabies and Exploding head syndrome. All at the same time"

 

[Farm Boy]

I'll take it, and another ten for doubling my odds of being hit by a meteor. And another ten for doubling my odds of being eaten by a shark. And another ten for doubling my odds of being trampled by a zebra. If you are willing to make all these payments I can keep going until you run out of money.

What pristine lands you must roam if you don't care about lockjaw.