The Deity Challenge Line-up #19 - The Aztecs

[kb27787]

Bonus Competition: The first player to guess the theme for the AI civs wins an exciting prize: they get to choose the map for DCL #21!

Well I'll take a guess:
All the AI civs are civs which we have played in the most recent deity challenges (except for Germany)!
That correct?
(If so, I'm going to submit a game with Brazil and force everyone into the way of culture!)

 

[stormtrooper412]

Nothing to write home about, Monty is just superb for going tall

I did mess up the end GS bulbing sequence, ended with 2 too many so that would probably have sliced at least 10 turns out of this

Spoiler :

I was friends all game with Netherlands, Indonesia, Morocco, Poland, and Mayans. That kind of eliminated any need to build anything, just buy it straight out. Everyone hated China and Poland, and Nebby was all kinds of crazy, went Patronage and then started killing everyone, no wonder he ended up dead last in technology race

 

[Strickl3r]

pre turn 300 is always nice if one doesn't mess around to much and just play it through. Not to bad i hope i can get turn 250-300 aswell. I saved in the BCs earlier i hope i don't get troll settled like on the screenshots hehe.

Btw speaking of screenshots how can someone get the idea to move the settler on this one, that is just crazy

 

[Shark Diver]

Science Victory t296

Spoiler :

Preface: This is not a civ I've played much before, but I decided to have some fun and alter normal playing style just to see what happened.

Settled in place and took Jag-1 due East where he found some religious CS, a couple of ruins (1 culture) and killed a couple of barb camps. Built a Scout who went SW, learned how to shoot a bow, and grabbed more huts and killed some barb camps (common theme here). Built Jag-2 who went North, met some peeps, grabbed a pop ruin, and……yup, killed some barb camps.

Because of all this early culture potential, I decided to get a bit creative with my SP.

SP: Tradition Opener > Honor Opener > Left side of Liberty (space was getting cramped early and I needed some settlers out ASAP). I then finished Tradition (Aztecs gotta grow ya know). This delayed Rationalism opener by one policy, slowing down tech time. I ended up having to come back for Rationalism policies 2-6 after Freedom Ideology (I was first).

I just happened to have my archer and Jag-1 in the right spot when Wu showed up with this little troop of land-grabbers heading towards my target for 1st expo:



She didn't take the hint, so I liberated a 2nd batch shortly thereafter:



(Note the free 100 GP donation I'd also grab in a couple of turns).

I must say that the Jags are very well suited for this type of tactic early game, particularly in this type of terrain.

My plan at this point, if you can call it that, was to settle 3 cities, build a small army, and harass China until I had enough XP to knock down her walls with range, out of the reach of CKN's. I did settle the 3 good cities and had 4 jags and 5 archers ready for upgrade, when I came to the conclusion, as governments often do, that I was dead broke. Even selling off the plethora of horsies and iron that I had didn't generate enough to get that army and/or reinforcements to the point where I could threaten her. Plus, I had stepped on a Sailing hut, so had 2 trade routes with no external place to go besides China and I needed the tech boost, so I gave her peace….reluctantly.

3-city NC, with a 4th expo settled down south around t105….just in time as I had to use all of my mobility advantage to settler-block China, Maya, and Indo. Oracle was already gone, as was just about every other early Wonder (although I did a 3-turn Pyramid build around t150 to satisfy 3 CS requests…..and deleted the workers immediately).

From there on out I was pretty much just trying to stay happy and avoid the poorhouse while growing and building tech. I was ready to join in on wars if good opportunities presented themselves, but it just didn't happen.

First World Council appeared and I didn't get to propose anything. WF did not get proposed the 1st or 2nd go-round, which sucked because I had 4 cities cranking out production with a GA waiting. This slowed culture a lot as I really wanted to get back into Rationalism. On the 3rd go-round, someone proposed I.G. This was around t180 and I suicided for the free culture from winning it:



Next round I finally got a proposal and put WF out there. I was concerned about winning it as it was so late in the game that there were some pretty strong civs with a lot more cities than I. However, with all focus on WF production and a GA, I won it in 3 turns:



After that, I cruised through my SP's. Finished Freedom and Rationalism, then opened Commerce for Big Ben (built t245 in 4 turns). I then went back and finished Liberty for the free GS to finish the game.

Everyone was pretty cool most of the game, especially the Dutch and Indo's. Even though I had stunted Wu's early growth, she became pretty tough, knocking Pacal out of the middle of the continent and kicking Casimir back to his homeland as well. Then Babylon woke up, killed off Pacal, Poland, and decimated China very quickly. I had a diplomat in his capital who informed me that Nebu was secretly marching an army towards another civ for a surprise attack. Surprise? He's right on my freakin doorstep and I can see about 30 Marines. Stupid useless diplomat…….I should send him to Benghazi. Since I was about 12 turns from SV and didn't feel like fighting it out, I bribed Nebu with 4 useless horsies and 2 useless iron plus the whopping sum of 9 GPT to go after Indonesia instead. Those two put on a fireworks display as I turtled up behind a wall of Infantry and bought the final 2 SS parts.

I did use 2 GS early to make sure I got to SoL first as the game was pretty balanced and I didn't want someone sneaking that one out from under me.

I never did get a religion, but a couple of nice missionaries taught my folks how to build 3 Mosques and a couple of Pagodas. My FPT never got over 30, but it was enough to buy 2 GE's and 1 GS late.

At the end, I had way too much money and just enough culture. I wish I would have fought more earlier, but it never did make sense. I ended up with a pretty good and balanced military, but decided to avoid the violence and just coast to a slow win.

Wonders Built: Big Ben, Neusch, Hubble, PT, and Pyramids in Capital. Cristo and Eiffel (both hard built) in Teotihuacan.

 

[consentient]

and the city needs your religion to earn the faith correct?
Back in GnK i used to do this and have a Prophet marching along with my troops. Good for 4 cities.

Exactly right. I often use this strategy to quite good effect.

Well I'll take a guess:
All the AI civs are civs which we have played in the most recent deity challenges (except for Germany)!
That correct?
(If so, I'm going to submit a game with Brazil and force everyone into the way of culture!)

Yes, you are correct. They are the civs I have chosen for the DCL. Germany was a map submitted by Gustavus Rex, so technically he chose it.

Congratulations KB! And I look forward to receiving your Brazil map for #21. The release date will be 22nd Feb so you have a while to choose something good.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Turn 285 Diplomatic Victory

Slight Write Up

Spoiler :

I was very surprised since I usually never go Freedom but it must change things with the votes because I was able to get 4 Civs to vote for me for WL which is kinda funny since they are supposed to be trying to win. So that is 16 votes on top of the 32 that I had. So it is nice to learn that Civs will vote for you as WL even on Deity! If I go another tech route I end up with the Diplomats and one more CS to most likely have 40 if nobody votes for me but I guess when you go Freedom the world loves you no matter how many cities I captured during the game! I could of chose a level 3 tenet but nothing was worth it so I took wagon trains instead.

(Babylon, Poland, China, and Maya all voted 4 votes for me and China was the only one who went Freedom with me. Everyone went Autocracy except for Poland who went Order. They tried to make Autocracy the World Ideology but I blocked that and I was going to get into Autocracy to build Prora but I didn't think I could get it however as late as it went off I think I could of switched and got it. Indonesia and Amsterdam tried to double team me but my rocket artillery and other units showed them what was really up! What really pissed me off was I didn't even get to faith buy one thing this game!!

For players who think you need a defensive army in the first 100-150 turns once again I did not have hardly any army until I started to build a few cannons. I disbanded my large army in the last 10 turns and all my science buildings for extra gold at the end to buy more CS's. I mis-timed taking Jakarta and Poland captured it first but I may have sold it in the end anyway but I wanted the Wonders.

Screenshots

Spoiler :

Screenshot of Wonders in Capital Turn 285

Spoiler :

I should of had the Hanging Gardens but since I usually don't build it I forgot and mis-timed it missing by 1 turn.

 

[consentient]

Turn 307 Science

I honestly don't know how I'm so slow at peaceful play. My cities were HUGE, I never had to build a military. I beelined everything like I'm supposed to. I went full Rationalism. I built Research. Maybe I am missing some key fact???

Clues to my mediocrity attached. Any help much appreciated by a warmonger who realises that sometimes it can be useful to go Tall and Peaceful to make a nice change.

[EDIT: I realise that I could have finished somewhat faster if I'd had faith to buy GS, but surely this doesn't account for the 100 turns difference that players like Acken regularly achieve? Do Observatories and faith GS save 100 turns? What is my problem??? ]

 

[Fluphen Azine]

My first thought is you are going with 3 cities which is going to slow you down some. I know they like to go with a 4 city Tradition asap and add a 5th city in the mix which shaves turns off. I've seen others drop a 6th city as well. Anyways it will not be long and Acken will be in to instruct you on what to do and not to do!

 

[kb27787]

Turn 307 Science

I honestly don't know how I'm so slow at peaceful play. My cities were HUGE, I never had to build a military. I beelined everything like I'm supposed to. I went full Rationalism. I built Research. Maybe I am missing some key fact???

Clues to my mediocrity attached. Any help much appreciated by a warmonger who realises that sometimes it can be useful to go Tall and Peaceful to make a nice change.

[EDIT: I realise that I could have finished somewhat faster if I'd had faith to buy GS, but surely this doesn't account for the 100 turns difference that players like Acken regularly achieve? Do Observatories and faith GS save 100 turns? What is my problem??? ]

I'm guessing not enough RAs?... You can also try for International Space Station from WC... if your cities are that big you shouldn't have a problem (I assume from the screen shot you only have 2 techs left to research @t260+?)
I would say 3 cities that big are going to beat 4 mediocre cities, in my experience anyway. So I'm guessing either you didn't bulb correctly or you didn't have many RAs.

Freedom is by far better in my experience, esp if you have a friend to trade gpt for lump sum. Then you simply buy all your parts and blast off.
But observatory makes such a huge difference so yeah...

 

[peddroelm]

observatories are HUGE for tradition tall cities .. Beeline tech and rush buy ASAP ..

 

[Shark Diver]

Turn 285 Diplomatic Victory

And no Patronage? Nice.

 

[Strickl3r]

observatories are HUGE for tradition tall cities .. Beeline tech and rush buy ASAP ..

Kind of obvious, but just to make it a clear statement. You mean Enter the Renaissance with Astronomy as fast as possible? ( before workshops, before aesthetics to rush rationalism opener)

 

[consentient]

I'm guessing not enough RAs?... You can also try for International Space Station from WC... if your cities are that big you shouldn't have a problem (I assume from the screen shot you only have 2 techs left to research @t260+?)
I would say 3 cities that big are going to beat 4 mediocre cities, in my experience anyway. So I'm guessing either you didn't bulb correctly or you didn't have many RAs.

Freedom is by far better in my experience, esp if you have a friend to trade gpt for lump sum. Then you simply buy all your parts and blast off.
But observatory makes such a huge difference so yeah...

I didn't think RAs were worth it once you have the tech lead, and

Spoiler :

Wu

built PT one stinking turn before I could complete, so that swung it for me. Clearly I am wrong and this is where I went wrong. I had 3 or 4 DoFs and they constantly offered. I was hoarding my money for nothing.

Next time I try science should I take all RAs I am offered?

 

[budweiser]

This game is evil. The AI will come up and offer you an RA just as you finish saving for that juicy Public School. You say yes on impulse and now you cant buy the school.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

And no Patronage? Nice.

Who needs Patronage SP when you have a Patronage Army that captures cities at will and sells them for all the AIs gold and resources. Actually I never planned on the war as early as it happened. I got the double DOW where the AI says should we try to destroy the Aztecs and the other AI says ..."Why the heck not!"

I had the same problem in my game as you did in yours, I never had control of the WC and WF was purposed on the turn I won the game so missing that made my game a bit longer on turn time. I have to admit I am starting to enjoy this turtle/peace style for half the game and in the second half I go all out Warmonger. I think it makes for a more interactive style of game where you get to do a little bit of everything.

(Olympics was passed but I missed out on winning it.)

This game is evil. The AI will come up and offer you an RA just as you finish saving for that juicy Public School. You say yes on impulse and now you cant buy the school.

The AI is more evil when they say hey lets RA...you say ok... 1 or 2 Turns later they denounce you or better yet they decide to DOW you !

 

[IronfighterXXX]

I'll try to play this one. This time however I will choose judging from screenshot the most obvious path to victory - science

 

[stormtrooper412]

The key to a fast win in this map is not wasting time to build everything, just take out loans from your many friends and buy science buildings while growing like mad, using excess happiness from your CSs

@consentient:

1. As soon as satellite cities have all science and gold buildings up and are 30+ pop, switch to research. Hospitals and Med Labs won't really make much difference. Reroute all trade routes to bring as much gold back as possible.

2. Start a conga line of GS bulbs to get to Apollo and Sats at the same time so you can build one in one city and one in other. Hubble is basically only useful because you get a pair of GSs. You could use a faith bought GS but you don't need to finish Rationalism early, use the free tech finisher to catch a distant tech that would be 8-10 turns away otherwise.

3. Freedom buys spaceship parts. Spaceship parts are MUCH cheaper with Big Ben and Mercantilism. On this map you will have PLENTY of extra happiness to counter ideological pressure, which diplomatically isn't really all that bad, and that's a good thing because apparently nobody ever goes Freedom, not even America, Germany and the likes. I don't really think Order can get a science win as fast

 

[Shark Diver]

I didn't think RAs were worth it once you have the tech lead, and

Spoiler :

Wu

built PT one stinking turn before I could complete, so that swung it for me. Clearly I am wrong and this is where I went wrong. I had 3 or 4 DoFs and they constantly offered. I was hoarding my money for nothing.

Next time I try science should I take all RAs I am offered?

In this game, I made the mistake of taking early RA's. This kept me from early unit upgrades and slowed any war attempts. I don't normally accept early RA's as they aren't worth very many beakers. Once you get PT and Rationalism finisher, every RA is pretty nice.

I find divs are somewhat reluctant to DoW when an RA is in place, but I've had many experiences with the RA double-cross.

What I'd like to figure out is what metric the AI uses later game to decide how much "honey" the human has to throw into an RA deal?

 

[Browd]

You will have to pay the AI 100 gold per era differential. So, if you are in Modern era and the AI is still in Renaissance, you have to pay 200 gold worth of value. Could be 2 iron (90), 1 horse (45), open borders (50) and 15 gold, or 4 coal (180) plus 20 gold, or 1 luxury (240) with the AI paying you 40 gold, or any other combination that adds up to 200.

Of course, if the AI is that far behind you, their beaker run rate may be mediocre, making the RA that much less valuable (in BNW, RA payouts are limited by the lesser of the beakers produced by the two RA partners) and therefore less cost-effective.

 

[kb27787]

Kind of obvious, but just to make it a clear statement. You mean Enter the Renaissance with Astronomy as fast as possible? ( before workshops, before aesthetics to rush rationalism opener)

If you're going for SV, yeah.... (I'm going for CV though so I entered through acoustics as usual since WC was founded by someone else I didn't have a shot at PP wonders)