The Great DoC UHV v 1.11 challenge

[citis]

I can't open Mexico and Italy, cause I upgraded, so I can't find the scores. I won't downgrade, so let them. Fortunately I screenshoted Russia.

 

[Fresol]

Well this is on SVN 757 but this thread is still the better place to post the game, just so that it's easier to find.

Viking UHV on Paragon/Normal, 600 AD start. Game won on 1250 AD, with a score of 23102.

Viking has the one of the easiest UHV out there, and they also need next to no research so difficulty level does basically nothing to them.

Counting on time order, Byzantium (600 AD) is the first one on the list whose UHV is achievable on a regular basis on Paragon/Normal. But I failed twice due to Seljuks and a culture bomb in Shenyang respectively. It should be quite clear that 2 Great Merchants + 1 Great Artist and lots of units could secure the win, so I tried Viking, the next one.

Viking's UU is available at start, and you only need a Great Scientist to bulb Compass for the 2nd UHV goal (but don't get Meditation before that!). Then just use Mercenary for everlasting war and pillage. It is quite an IMBA civic.

 

[ales_]

It won't be in the OP. But wait for 1.12, then replay and after a new thread is opened you can post it there.

 

[ales_]

The OP was updated to post #380. Rob-art1985 and Citis are both credited for Russia 600 AD. Barbuesque and Alhambram are both credited for Arabia 600 AD.

 

[Wessel V1]

China, 3000 BC, Monarch, Normal, 8201, 1545 AD, svn 753. This UHV could actually qualify as being virtual, since you need 32 turns of Golden Age (@ Leoreth, since the goal is to experience 4 golden ages, 25 may be better? After all, you 'experience' the beginning of the 4th at the 25th turn) in stead of just 4 golden ages. If so, my virtual UHV date is 1505 AD, just after I finished the Olympic Park at which point I was still in the 3rd Golden Age.

My first try was a bit lazy, because it has been years (literally) since I started a civilization game from absolute zero. Therefore, science never took off and I quit pretty early. Next try was more succesful, I had about 170 beakers per turn in 600 AD. However, conquering Korea didn't go as planned and because I had no intention to rush everything in some mediocre city I quit again. Next game was less succesful but I learnt a lot from it, because while it seemed I did the same, for some reason science couldn't go beyond 100 beakers per turn. So, analysing the differences between these games got me to the following strategy:

Found Xi'an 1S on the river. It's a formidable city. Research is Animal Husbandry, Writing (for open borders with India and UB) Fishing and Sailing (for trade route with India), Alfabet, pop Mathematics from the Great Scientist you should get by 1000 BC, then Calendar and Currency (the former is actually more powerful in this case), then the Compass which you should get at about 1 AD. Trade everything else you need. Then it's a cruise towards victory.

Founding new cities is a bit tricky, you need to find balance between not having to run a low science percentage and not being too late to have a strong economy in the first millenium AD. I think the 3 coastal cities, Wuhan and Kumming should be built rather soon, Beijing and Pyongyang can wait. Also, don't forget to have a coastal trade route to Europe, Open Borders with Rome means everything for your economy.

At first I failed to predict the impact of the Mongols so I lost Beijing in a rather dumb fashion. Then I discovered Karakorum is actually defended by only 2 Horse Archers 1 turn after the Mongols spawn and better yet, a scripted road connects Beijing and Karakorum in such a way a Knight can attack the city right away, destroying Mongolia.

Actually, I think the solution to this is quite simple. If the capital starts with its culture borders already expanded to the BFC and the tile SE of Karakorum becomes a desert (changing to plains later on, maybe), there is no way to get access to Karakorum from a safe place.

 

[Sovietof17]

Im having problems with China and getting Paper. It seems like you are forced into the theology route. There are just so many things you must do before 1000 AD (defend against barb hordes, build/conquer 8(!) cities, get Music, and Compass..)

 

[ales_]

Are you sure you're talking about the 600 AD scenario?
BTW, it won't qualify as a virtual victory.

 

[Wessel V1]

Research is key. You need to maximize research from the very beginning. For example, when you finish researching the Calendar, you want to have a lot of workers to get all the Plantation resources online as quick as possible. Not only do these greatly contribute to gross commerce, they bring happiness as well which allows much bigger cities. Even better, trade them with Europeans. I'd recommend having at least 10 or 12 at that point, which is not too hard considering most Chinese cities aren't exceptionally good at building anything else. Towns and mines are the standard improvements on all tiles without resources. That should get the domestic economy going. I should also point out that I didn't switch civics for a very long time, the reasoning being upkeep. One of the key differences between game 2 (prosperous) and 3 (failure) was civic upkeep, multiplied by a massive inflation in both. For example, Organized religion, which is usually one of my favourites, costs a huge pile of money each turn. Better stay at something cheap or not waste the turn of anarchy at all.

Also, try to make sure the trade routes go to Europe. India is very nice for early international trade, but compared to what Rome has to offer it's nothing. Sometimes there's a barbarian blocking your trade route, but you have to make sure to get European trade routes most of the time.

That's basically it. Always search for ways to increase commerce and science, preferably in that order. Try to keep upkeep to a minimum. What I learned from the 3rd game is that you actually do have some influence on that apart from the basic Courthouse. It's such a pity when you're stuck with only 5 cities and still have to set the research bar to 40%. China has a huge potential, I got the Triumphal Arch with all Medieval techs already discovered in 1140 AD and I'm by no means a great player.

 

[ales_]

Have you seen my post?

 

[Wessel V1]

Oh, my bad, 3000 BC of course. I don't see why it can't be a virtual victory. In theory, you could get all Golden Ages at once, so you have a string of 32 turns of Golden Age and then win. Which means in the meanwhile you could do anything you want. I'd say it's a perfect qualification for a virtual victory, but again, it's your thread. The event manager showed I built it in 1500 AD by the way in stead of 1505 AD, the 3rd and the 4th Golden Age were indeed connected.

 

[ales_]

Please, edit your post (#385). Usually the virtual victory is applied to "in" conditions. In this case, you have to experience 4 golden ages or, more exactly, experience 32 (on Normal) turns of golden age. So, you win as soon as they end. This is my point of view.

 

[Sovietof17]

Research is key. You need to maximize research from the very beginning. For example, when you finish researching the Calendar, you want to have a lot of workers to get all the Plantation resources online as quick as possible. Not only do these greatly contribute to gross commerce, they bring happiness as well which allows much bigger cities. Even better, trade them with Europeans. I'd recommend having at least 10 or 12 at that point, which is not too hard considering most Chinese cities aren't exceptionally good at building anything else. Towns and mines are the standard improvements on all tiles without resources. That should get the domestic economy going. I should also point out that I didn't switch civics for a very long time, the reasoning being upkeep. One of the key differences between game 2 (prosperous) and 3 (failure) was civic upkeep, multiplied by a massive inflation in both. For example, Organized religion, which is usually one of my favourites, costs a huge pile of money each turn. Better stay at something cheap or not waste the turn of anarchy at all.

Also, try to make sure the trade routes go to Europe. India is very nice for early international trade, but compared to what Rome has to offer it's nothing. Sometimes there's a barbarian blocking your trade route, but you have to make sure to get European trade routes most of the time.

That's basically it. Always search for ways to increase commerce and science, preferably in that order. Try to keep upkeep to a minimum. What I learned from the 3rd game is that you actually do have some influence on that apart from the basic Courthouse. It's such a pity when you're stuck with only 5 cities and still have to set the research bar to 40%. China has a huge potential, I got the Triumphal Arch with all Medieval techs already discovered in 1140 AD and I'm by no means a great player.

Thanks kindly for the detailed reply. Did you choose to conquer or to settle peacefully? 8 cities is so much.

 

[Fresol]

Iranian UHV on Paragon/Normal, 600 AD start, SVN revision 763:

Finished at 1799 AD, with a score of 5986.

Started as Congo and switched to Iran. Congo was doing reasonably well in this game, had a higher score than me!

In this game Iran was surrounded by powerful neighbors like Arabia and Mongolia, so I chose to strike the weakest of them, Mughal, after I had accumulated an sizable army of bombards and Qizilbashes. It was the most logical choice, for I also needed Great Artists from the rich Indian lands. I got 4 GA from there and a first one from Tebriz, and culture bombed the city to achieve the 3rd UHV goal.

Mongol was quite strong in military, and I had to make use of their instability to cause a collapse to core crisis to them, but still we had skirmishes. They also had a sizable army of 10+Keshiks and 5+bombards roaming Arabia at the time, so I had to use some worker to lure them away and buy time for peace.

For Baghdad, I barely had time to take the city, but it was not heavily defended so I took it anyway. Later a Congress turned it into the Arabs' hands, and it made me have to take the city again (although by then the goal was already checked).

Tips: build nothing but the most basic infrastructures and units. Hire artists early and take India early. Build the Globe Theater there and raise as many Great Artists as you can. Typically you can get 5-6 in total, sometimes even more. It's not necessary to do any research but you may want to trade some techs while you can. For the whole game I was among the most backwards of all civs (even Aztecs was better!), but it didn't matter.

 

[ales_]

As stated in post #365:

I'm sorry to say it but to avoid confusion with the new difficulty levels, games on SVN revisions starting with 757 are not excepted. However, non SVN (1.11) and SVN 756 and before games are still excepted. I hope 1.12 will be released soon.

Wait until the 1.12 release, replay and post your victory in the new thread which will be opened after the release. I should probably add this to the OP.

 

[Wessel V1]

@ Sovietof17: I chose to settle all of them with the exception of Pyonyang. However, if Korea built another city I'd have razed that and built Pyonyang anyway. Of course you can settle for Seoul which is decent, but I dislike suboptimal city placement, even if it means that I have to raze some.

@ ales: I'm familiar with the concept, in fact, I was the one who originally came up with it. Therefore, I'd argue that it's not just any 'in' goal, but more generally that you have achieved all three goals but you simply have to wait until some point where the goal is triggered. In this case, I'd argue that having all the prerequisites for the 3rd goal (32 turns of Golden Age) ready but having to wait for that third goal to trigger is valid for a virtual victory. Of course, it could be said that it's simply 8 turns after you start the 4th, but in some cases it is not, like the one in mine where 3 and 4 overlapped. Therefore, I think it could be added, but it's not really important to me so don't worry.

 

[ales_]

Wow, didn't know that!
But I think it's not a limiting factor. You can get this goal as early as you want.
Please, edit your post #385.

 

[Wessel V1]

Changed post 385.

 

[ales_]

The OP was updated to post #385. Wessel V1 replaced Citis for China 3000 BC. Wessel V1 and Alhambram are both credited for China 3000 BC.

 

[Sovietof17]

@ Sovietof17: I chose to settle all of them with the exception of Pyonyang. However, if Korea built another city I'd have razed that and built Pyonyang anyway. Of course you can settle for Seoul which is decent, but I dislike suboptimal city placement, even if it means that I have to raze some.

@ ales: I'm familiar with the concept, in fact, I was the one who originally came up with it. Therefore, I'd argue that it's not just any 'in' goal, but more generally that you have achieved all three goals but you simply have to wait until some point where the goal is triggered. In this case, I'd argue that having all the prerequisites for the 3rd goal (32 turns of Golden Age) ready but having to wait for that third goal to trigger is valid for a virtual victory. Of course, it could be said that it's simply 8 turns after you start the 4th, but in some cases it is not, like the one in mine where 3 and 4 overlapped. Therefore, I think it could be added, but it's not really important to me so don't worry.

Where do you settle, I'm very curious... if you don't mind sharing a map or something?

 

[Rackham]

- Mali ( 3000 BC, no SVN)
- Monarch / Normal
- score : 2011
- finish : 1700 AD (virtual win : 1630 AD)

Founded Timbuktu and Gao right away, and Accra as soon a I got sailing (cf. screenshot) ; Daloa was founded much later.
I spread islam to Gao (not Timbuktu) and ran a priest asap there (schedule is tight), then built a 4th worker and some defenses, while Timbuktu hurried a market and ran merchants.
Getting a GM to Mecca in time is easy if you run those merchants soon enough. it's important to pay attention to the gp pool though, and not spawn a second GM before getting the GPriest in Goa.
I cottaged every flood plain asap, and they were never pillaged thanks to good defense in Gao (including a flipped camel) preventing the natives and barbs from going further west.

Achieving the gold goals is then pretty easy if you use every method at your disposal : run 100% wealth after paper ofc, get some additional GM, and don't forget to sell techs, map, a few slaves and also continually sell ressources to the highest bidder (don't keep them for yourself unless you really need to).

I got 15k in 1630, could probably have gotten at least 20k by 1700, but focused on improving my score instead.