The Immortal Challenge 2: For the Fatherland

sylvanllewelyn said:
There's no such thing as a deity player. Deity is just immortal with a lot of luck.
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Furthermore deity is depleted Immortal, cause you rarely build wonder or found religion. However I believe that with certain settings you can regulary win on deity. But it's good for once, "just to beat deity". Lower difficulties offer more education and fun.
 
Settle on marble to get additional production boost. Cow and clam in 'fat cross'? (still do not know what it is, but I'll figure it out one day).

edit: Gamling is inefficient while Oracle will spoil Great Person Bar pretty much.
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182895&page=6

damn I suck at finding the threads related to this debate about the oracle sling. but there are a few key points that factor into it. hopefully this will clear up points that others are percieving as negatives for this gambit.

1st you MUST have pottery as pre-req for metal casting. so before oracle finishes you have to have researched ag, wheel, pottery, plus BW.

there's usually time to research AH, or fishing. so part of this gambit makes you research ALL of the early worker techs.

you usually put the oracle in the capitol and the forge in city #2. I find it good to do that if you find a really high food source for your 2nd city. but given the way this area is layed out, I would suggest the oracle in the 2nd city and the forge in the first if at all possible..

oracle is 2GPP w/ philo it becomes 4. 25 turns to the first prophet
an engineer is going to produce 6 GPP.. 17 turns to engineer.. leaving you a gap of only 8 turns (7 really) to get that engineer running.

the hard part is making sure you can start running it intime. but if you do you have a 100% chance of getting an engineer as your first.

the forge is a brutal 120 hammers at this point in the game. on normal your chops are only good for 20 hammers. I would anticipate running the engineer in the capitol if at all possible, it is more likely to have the pop nessessary to rush the forge for another 30-60 hammers

I'm hoping futurehermit sees this and can weigh in, but I would suggest teching:

BW, Ag, wheel, myst, poly, priesthood, pottery, masonry, AH, and then from there
pottery needs to finish BEFORE the oracle is built. and you want masonry finished before your engineer spawns.. he will need to rush the pyramids that turn.

to do in the meantime.. looks like you can sacrifice a couple of forests, I would chop a settler and get him over to wherever the oracle is going to get built. while you are finishing priesthood have that city build a 2nd worker

I'd build nothing but warriors in the capitol after that to bulk up defence. on that note if you don't find copper I'd grab archery or earlier AH and prey for horses.

the worker that chop rushed the settler is going to need to hook up the corn (duh) and the cows if you get Ah early enough. otherwise you have some important micro to do. each forest needs to be pre-chopped to within 1 turn of completion. zip your other worker down there and try to finish off the forge in 2 turns (finish 2 forests, finish 2 forests, whip 2 pop)

I don't have a turn counter to add up the research times, but I have done this before several times with germany and hit the pyramids consistently before 1000bc. you have a better start than most, this gambit should be doable, and as you can see you won't be neglecting early techs at all to do it
(bw, ag, wheel etc)

if you DO pull this off.. 1st GP will be an engineer. 2nd will be a prophet. 3rd will be an engineer or scientist if you have a library up in the capitol by then (running 3 specialists there) since you can probably hard build the library its up to you if you want to risk running scientists w/ the engineer.. but a 2nd free engineer would mean free GL as well :D

NaZ
 
@NaZdReG - Ah...I missed that you were putting the Forge in a second city. After reading the thread, your suggestion makes much more sense. I'll have to try that out. One thing, with Marble I don't know if I would use the second GE on the GL...I'd probably settle him.

@Giaur - are you 100% sure settling on the Marble gives an extra Hammer? I vaguely recall trying this in one game and being disappointed when I got no bonus.

Darrell
 
I would settle in place, the marble is needed for hammers. Going agri-AH with a worker is the best way to get your first settler out and I would adapt from there. It is too early to commit to an oracle build from the start, with little natural commerce it's not easy to pull off Oracle slingshots fast enough to get the pyramids on immortal.
 
uberfish said:
I would settle in place, the marble is needed for hammers. Going agri-AH with a worker is the best way to get your first settler out and I would adapt from there. It is too early to commit to an oracle build from the start, with little natural commerce it's not easy to pull off Oracle slingshots fast enough to get the pyramids on immortal.
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I agree with going Agri-AH while building a worker first, but I think the Pyramid gambit is an interesting idea worth trying. We have marble, so that might help us get the Oracle early enough.
 
darrelljs said:
@Giaur - are you 100% sure settling on the Marble gives an extra Hammer? I vaguely recall trying this in one game and being disappointed when I got no bonus.

Darrell
Click to expand...

Yes, 100%. When marble is combined with plains and hills, bonus is even greater - 3 hammers. But in this particular case I gave wrong advice. This city would be insufficient with hammers (lack of hills).

edit: That's whole me. I am too rushed. I make decisions too fast.
 
I think that the Oracle for forge for GE for Pyramids gambit should be tried. It is an interesting strat that I would like to see, as it would be very educational. Plus it makes an SE very powerful. And settle in place, that is an early GP farm, you might even change capital later so that Berlin is your GP farm, as it has 11 extra food already just with resources and city center.
 
definently settle in place and build a few wonders if you build ToA you will get a couple of GMs which i personally love, but GS are needed too so you have to pick and choose
 
Just played the first round. It's a quick one, only until we build the first settler. There are few hiccups already, I think.
 
It's very risky gambit. Or perhaps I missed sth.

Oracle gives 1GP, Forge gives 1GE. So chances could not be greater than 50% to get GE. And they might be smaller while Oracle produce some pure GProphet points. I guess it will give about 35-45 percent to get GE. I would not go for that :sad:

Or are you planning to construct forge in another city?
 
I forgot to add (though it is explained in sisuitil's thread) that each forest that is going to be chopped for the forge needs to be roaded so when the worker returns to chop it it can move in and finish it during a single turn.

also follow sisuitil's suggestion and start either a barracks or something in the city that is going to get the forge, and don't finish it. whip and use the overflow.. or just whip completion of the forge.

looks like coast is to the south, I'd advocate sending the scout east then counter-clockwise around the capitol. with all those forests there wont be metals under them in all likelyhood. hopefully you will find copper nearby. the hammers from that will shave a turn off of the forge and/or help you get some axes for defence early.

Bronze working should be a priority to reveal copper (hopefully nearby) and to get the choppage underway. by the time you are ready to start on the oracle, all or nearly all of the forests around the capitol need to be pre-chopped to within 1 turn of completion. the 2nd city needs to be in the same situation so you can burn as many forests as needed to finish the oracle and the forge. ooh I just realized that w/ the marble you'll be getting 40 hammers from each chop.

with 3 forests ready to go (pre chopped and roaded) and 2 workers prepped you could potentially finish the oracle in just 2 turns. chop 2 forests, next turn chop 1 and whip to finish. by then the other worker could make it over to the next forest to chop for the forge.

if you do find copper nearby, i would DEFINATELY go for this.. your position is way too primed for the gambit not to IMO.

1st round already done?? damn well I guess we'll see what happened and if this is still viable

NaZ
 
Hmmm ...

Oracle could be finished about 1600BC. Pre-chopping could allow us to construct forge 2 turns later. And 100/6=17 turns to get GE. It gives 20 turns. I guess Pyramids can't be built before 800BC. It's a gambit :)
 
I suppose the greatest problem will be researching Pottery before Oracle is completed. Our strategy should be set on maximize commerce.
 
ran the gambit myself on monarch w/ a similar start and ended up with pyramids at 800bc or so. 5 cities (3 founded 2 from barbs) managed to get hinduism on the path (lucky I think) so my GP (2nd) ended up founding the shrine. 2 of my neighbors converted, already running representation as I have enough space behind me to settle peacefully and outtech them. already I am multiple techs ahead of the ai.

:D

NaZ
 
aelf said:
Just played the first round. It's a quick one, only until we build the first settler. There are few hiccups already, I think.
Click to expand...

Hiccups are more the norm than the exception. As the saying goes "No plan survives the first meeting with the enemy".

It's wise to keep in mind your civs traits so that you can pursue goals that are supported by them. However, planning a strategy out to COL or Monarchy is really wishful thinking on Immortal level.

I hope the hiccups aelf has don't turn into a headache!
 
well heavens I missed something important in followup.. though I seriously doubt aelf would make such a mistake. if you get the engineer and the pyramids.. don't put them in the capitol!! (or wherever the oracle is) I forever polluted the GPP pool :( oh well trashed the game just makes good practice for the gambit :D

NaZ
 
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