The Release Sucks!!!!!!!
- Thread starter claudius888
- Start date
It's appalling that a game riddled with so many huge bugs gets past the testing phase. Not sure exactly who to blame but some sort of an apology and a quick patch are needed to save even some face. Firaxis/Take2 won't gain many new friends here by rushing a beta-product out.
I wouldn't mind the typos or such on Civilopedia etc but the graphics and stability problems that seem to plague a huge amount of people are just not acceptable at all. I particularly enjoy the one which reboots my computer after I load a savegame and click on a unit. Handy feature that...
I wouldn't mind the typos or such on Civilopedia etc but the graphics and stability problems that seem to plague a huge amount of people are just not acceptable at all. I particularly enjoy the one which reboots my computer after I load a savegame and click on a unit. Handy feature that...
maartena
Warlord
claudius888 said:
How can they have a patch ready when they haven't got a report back from users that have played the game on different hardware then what they tested with?
There are thousands of different configuration possibilities, and actually thousands and thousands more if you take different versions of chipset, video, sound, or other drivers into account. There is absolutely NO WAY they can test everything, and any game developer will rely on information out of the field after the first release so they can start working on a patch.
I am sure a patch that will address a good portion of the bugs will be released in a month or so. They too need time to actually build the patch based on information from the field, and that will most likely include reproducing the bug. Reproducing the bug is half the work as that will tell them where to look. Then they need to test the fix - on a variety of hardware to make sure that the FIX doesn't BREAK anything else.
Software development and patching software gets pretty detailed when you start to take a closer look at it.
The best thing you can do is submit all your hardware info and the bugs you have experienced to Firaxis or 2KGames so they have more facts to work with and can get a fix to you faster. It helps a lot more if a 100 people submit a bug report then only 10.
TheBarnacle
Chieftain
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- Messages
- 92
Hustapha Thool said:I have an ATI story for the installation of the game. Last Friday I recieved my pre-order from amazon at about 10AM. I had an ATI 9600 pro installed in my shuttle. I had been following the boards so I installed Civ IV as per the ATI install procedures (install civ with the direct x on the disk) on the front page of civfanatics, the game worked like a dream. Two hours later my new X800xl arrived. I had hoped that I could just pop it in and go, but I recieved the "failed to render" error, DRATS! I then removed the PAK file and replaced with the PAK download, it worked like a dream.
I understand why some people are so upset, but I have been gaming for years and years and this install was virtually painless. If you "youngins" knew what kind of hoops you had to jump through in the 386 and 486 days to get a game to run, if you ever did get it to run you would consider this hiccup a breeze. These kinds of issues are very common with game releases still today.
A computer is a very complex machine, the tech evolves very quickly and mine is very different than yours. If you want software that is plug and run I would sugest you stick with, IMHO ,crap console games. Don't be so impatient, The game was released on a Wednesday, and a large fix was available to me on Friday.
It is a basic fact, if you want to play great NEW games you have to keep up a bit tech-wise. It does not take a lot of money (the 9600 pro worked great for this game, what is it worth, $60?) but it does take a little bit of time investigating your purchases. Stay away from the pre-packaged comp systems if you want to play games, most are designed just to get you on the internet, chat, read mail and send photos to grandma . All you need to build a computer is a screwdriver and a bit of reading, it is really quite simple, and if you do not want/like to do that, it is usually very easy to find a relative-friend who would not mind doing so.
It is the basic truth of this business. PC games are cutting edge software-wise. Part of this is to spur the desire of cutting-edge hardware. F.E.A.R of DOOM demand this kind of cutting edge price. Civ IV , not so much, but if you are expecting your work laptop or 4 year old computer or 1 year old Dell built with no gaming capabilities to run it well...
I am probably starting to sound like an a** so I will quit my rant with...
WOW this is one great game. THANKYOU Sid and Firaxes.
dude, i don't know you, and no offense, but you sound like one of those 'phantom' movies reviewers studios have shilling on message boards: "DOOM is the best movie ever ! omg, i can't believe what a great actor the rock has become. i'm going to go back and spend another $12 to see it again it was sooooooo good!!! thank you for making this movie!!!"
maartena said:
The game obviously has a memory leak. The longer you play and the larger the visible portion of the map is the sooner you run into problems.
I can't believe that this did not get noticed in the beta test because I don't think is in any way related to the kind of hardware you run the game on.
Either the developers managed to produce this leak at the end of the beta test so it didn't get properly tested or they knew about it.
Sloppy QA or too much management pressure, there is no excuse for it.
TheBarnacle
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2005
- Messages
- 92
for a non-technophile, please tell me how we know this is a leak? how does this get confirmed other than anecdotal evidence?? I mean, with my limited knowledge, it SEEMS that this is a likely case (b/c of the same things you said...the longer resources are in demand, the slower it gets, meaning resources aren't being freed).
I have just done some tests and I'm not so sure about the memory leak anymore because checking the Task Manager I can not see any short term memory leak.
It seemed obvious to me because in my case crashes increased in frequency the longer I played (larger parts of the map explored, more activity on the map) and some things that caused crashes after maybe 15 minutes of play time (abruptly zooming out the map, for example) don't do any harm when I've just started playing.
It does have the look and feel of of a memory leak however. I have produced and hunted down enough memory leaks myself (working as a software developer) and this is what instinct tells me.
Maybe it is some other kind of ressource starvation. I don't have much experience with Windows programming, but I remember that Windows uses handles for many things and at least in the older Windows versions there used to be finite amounts of these.
It seemed obvious to me because in my case crashes increased in frequency the longer I played (larger parts of the map explored, more activity on the map) and some things that caused crashes after maybe 15 minutes of play time (abruptly zooming out the map, for example) don't do any harm when I've just started playing.
It does have the look and feel of of a memory leak however. I have produced and hunted down enough memory leaks myself (working as a software developer) and this is what instinct tells me.
Maybe it is some other kind of ressource starvation. I don't have much experience with Windows programming, but I remember that Windows uses handles for many things and at least in the older Windows versions there used to be finite amounts of these.
DMITCH8080
Chieftain
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- Oct 26, 2005
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- 12
maartena said:
You seem to be lost....The game makers are supposed to test the games before they come out! Every game maker test new games on the old simple computers all the way up to the top of the line computers! Thats why on the side of the box it says the game will work with this and that.....My computer is more than compatible with the stated specs and the game won't work just because I have a ATI card, which by the way is a top of the line card (and yes I put my old GeForce card in and the game works fine with bad graphics)!!!!! Nobody should be having the problems that they are having (sending error reports and trying to fix bugs is not my job)....this is a 2K mess up! I paid 50 bucks for a game that should work.....So all I have to say to you is bite your lip and leave these forums because you have no idea on what your talking about
DreamTheaterSFG
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
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- 24
The old "they cant test it on every system" defense can only go so far. You MIGHT be able to ham up that excuse when the problems are isolated, not wide spread. The problems shouldnt be this wide spread on so many different systems, and pieces of hardware. Its not just a couple of people having issues, its a good portion. A month? If its going to take them a month to fix the numerous issues, maybe the game should have been out next month, not this month. They couldnt even label the Cds correctly. The release is so sloppy its not even funny.
But bottom line is, that "they cant test it" defense is so poor anyway. On the bases of which, if you dont want to blame the developers cause it "wasnt there fault"...how do you get off blaming the consumers who just paid 50 bucks for a door jam? You cant...the only difference between the two is that the developers got a few pennies cause of a mistake that wasnt in ther econtrol, and the consumers LOST a few pennies for a mistake that wasnt in there control. Now you may understand why even in the face of that arguement the consumer on the losing end, isnt going to bite on that line regardless. Tho as said before, when the problems are more isolated that defense can hold more water...but that just isnt the case right now anyway.
Yea it might be fixed by the end of this week, and if so...then ill be happy and id consider it forgotten. But if its goign to take 3 weeks, thats not cool. I didnt place 50 bucks in my local retailers hands so i could have the game sit on my shelf for a month before it works.
As i said before, i do sometimes believe people place the blame on the wrong people, it might not have been firaxis decesion to release the game in this state. It is someones fault however. I doubt anyone is going to come foward, and thus its hard to pin blame. But whoever made the call to release the game like this should be ashamed. If it wasnt the Firaxis, then they should be pissed at who ever it was cause in the wake of the distruction the guilty party built a trail leading to them and then walked away from the disaster.
But bottom line is, that "they cant test it" defense is so poor anyway. On the bases of which, if you dont want to blame the developers cause it "wasnt there fault"...how do you get off blaming the consumers who just paid 50 bucks for a door jam? You cant...the only difference between the two is that the developers got a few pennies cause of a mistake that wasnt in ther econtrol, and the consumers LOST a few pennies for a mistake that wasnt in there control. Now you may understand why even in the face of that arguement the consumer on the losing end, isnt going to bite on that line regardless. Tho as said before, when the problems are more isolated that defense can hold more water...but that just isnt the case right now anyway.
Yea it might be fixed by the end of this week, and if so...then ill be happy and id consider it forgotten. But if its goign to take 3 weeks, thats not cool. I didnt place 50 bucks in my local retailers hands so i could have the game sit on my shelf for a month before it works.
As i said before, i do sometimes believe people place the blame on the wrong people, it might not have been firaxis decesion to release the game in this state. It is someones fault however. I doubt anyone is going to come foward, and thus its hard to pin blame. But whoever made the call to release the game like this should be ashamed. If it wasnt the Firaxis, then they should be pissed at who ever it was cause in the wake of the distruction the guilty party built a trail leading to them and then walked away from the disaster.
This game is the biggest POS I have purchased in a long long time. I rarely bother posting about games but wow...
For those of you being critical of negative posting by saying "Oh gee that's constructive" well it's not my job to fix or be constructive. I am a consumer who wasted 50 dollars on a game that runs like crap on the best of systems.
Unfortunately this is what the gaming magnates have almost all become. Date pushed, will fix after release, pay me now fuktards.
The game is already uninstalled and tossed in a box. Have posted to muliple boards about what a waste it is. Hope to save some ppl 50 dollars.
For those of you being critical of negative posting by saying "Oh gee that's constructive" well it's not my job to fix or be constructive. I am a consumer who wasted 50 dollars on a game that runs like crap on the best of systems.
Unfortunately this is what the gaming magnates have almost all become. Date pushed, will fix after release, pay me now fuktards.
The game is already uninstalled and tossed in a box. Have posted to muliple boards about what a waste it is. Hope to save some ppl 50 dollars.
TheBarnacle said:dude, i don't know you, and no offense, but you sound like one of those 'phantom' movies reviewers studios have shilling on message boards: "DOOM is the best movie ever ! omg, i can't believe what a great actor the rock has become. i'm going to go back and spend another $12 to see it again it was sooooooo good!!! thank you for making this movie!!!"
Hustapha Thool is right about the Good Old Days of 386/486 processors.
Expanded & Extended memory....Good Gawd...what a pain in the buttocks that was. BTW: Ram cost $100.00/MEG then too.
It is a great game....we just haven't seen it all yet. Why they didn't have many of the loyal fan base beta-test is beyond me....
12ozProphets
Chieftain
I tried civ4 on sunday. I first tryed to load it on my laptop, a DELL Inspiron 5150 with 15 inch UXGA, P4 3.06GHz, 1GB RAM, 60MB Hard Drive (not sure about the graphic card?). It would lock up during game startup.
Next I loaded it onto a 10 month old Dell OptiPlex P4 3.2 with 512MB RAM. This PC has 128MB ATI Radeon X300 Graphics. It started up and I played for about 5 hours. There were a few times where I though for sure it was going to crash, but it made it.
As for the game itself, I've only played one game in the last 10+ years - and that's civ. That said, It's going to take me a while to get use to the new controls and rules. I spent the whole 5 hours in a haze.
Next I loaded it onto a 10 month old Dell OptiPlex P4 3.2 with 512MB RAM. This PC has 128MB ATI Radeon X300 Graphics. It started up and I played for about 5 hours. There were a few times where I though for sure it was going to crash, but it made it.
As for the game itself, I've only played one game in the last 10+ years - and that's civ. That said, It's going to take me a while to get use to the new controls and rules. I spent the whole 5 hours in a haze.
DKDiveDude
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
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- 27
claudius888 said:
I second that opinion!
More steam off loading here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136796
generalshake
Consigliere
JamieHex said:
I'd have too agree with this poster here. I'm about a couple days away from doing this myself. I've done everything on the forums too fix problems too no avail. Posted on several forums myself as well. Sent countless emails to their tech support. So far have recieved only one piece of advice. It didn't work but I'm still thankfull for someone finally responding. The majority of the people here are of two breeds. Those with problems seeking answers, and the fanbois who remind you of the way cartman was all over Mel Gibson in that one south park.
In short if you are having problems with the game...run, don't walk back to the store and drop this flaming pile back off and wait for them too patch it. You will most likely find no help anywhere else.
Yeah, not very constructive...but I bet I'll get responses now heh. People crawl out of the woodwork to slam those with problems but offer little.
VirtualCLD
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 11
Hustapha Thool said:I have an ATI story for the installation of the game. Last Friday I recieved my pre-order from amazon at about 10AM. I had an ATI 9600 pro installed in my shuttle. I had been following the boards so I installed Civ IV as per the ATI install procedures (install civ with the direct x on the disk) on the front page of civfanatics, the game worked like a dream. Two hours later my new X800xl arrived. I had hoped that I could just pop it in and go, but I recieved the "failed to render" error, DRATS! I then removed the PAK file and replaced with the PAK download, it worked like a dream.
I understand why some people are so upset, but I have been gaming for years and years and this install was virtually painless. If you "youngins" knew what kind of hoops you had to jump through in the 386 and 486 days to get a game to run, if you ever did get it to run you would consider this hiccup a breeze. These kinds of issues are very common with game releases still today.
A computer is a very complex machine, the tech evolves very quickly and mine is very different than yours. If you want software that is plug and run I would sugest you stick with, IMHO ,crap console games. Don't be so impatient, The game was released on a Wednesday, and a large fix was available to me on Friday.
It is a basic fact, if you want to play great NEW games you have to keep up a bit tech-wise. It does not take a lot of money (the 9600 pro worked great for this game, what is it worth, $60?) but it does take a little bit of time investigating your purchases. Stay away from the pre-packaged comp systems if you want to play games, most are designed just to get you on the internet, chat, read mail and send photos to grandma . All you need to build a computer is a screwdriver and a bit of reading, it is really quite simple, and if you do not want/like to do that, it is usually very easy to find a relative-friend who would not mind doing so.
It is the basic truth of this business. PC games are cutting edge software-wise. Part of this is to spur the desire of cutting-edge hardware. F.E.A.R of DOOM demand this kind of cutting edge price. Civ IV , not so much, but if you are expecting your work laptop or 4 year old computer or 1 year old Dell built with no gaming capabilities to run it well...
I am probably starting to sound like an a** so I will quit my rant with...
WOW this is one great game. THANKYOU Sid and Firaxes.
Ah yes, the good ole days of trying to squeeze the most out of the 640K of memory DOS used. "Hmm... maybe if I load the CD-ROM and Mouse drivers into Upper MEmory, I'll have just enough to run my game. Drat!!!! I still need 28KB of lower memory. Hmm... what else don't I need?"
I know my computer in and out and while I may not be the most knowledgeable expert in the world, I know enough to do some research and find out what I need to know. The problem I have and that most people have in these forums is that their games don't run as smoothly as yours did. I also have a 9600 Pro and while I know it's an old card, it should be more than enough to run this game without CTDs, 1 Min+ load times for the Science Advisor screen to pop up, extreme lag later on in the game, movies that stutter, etc... Beleive you me, if the work you did was enough to get the game to run, I'd be happy, but it wasn't. I've been trying to tweak and update my computer more than I have for any single game and it still refuses to run smoothly.
On a seperate note, the reason Take Two's stocks slipped Tuesday was because of the fact that they issued a satement to their stockholders that their Fourth and First Quarter earnings will be lower than expected and that they are delaying a few game launches. One game in particular was Oblivion, which I have been waiting anxiously for. But if this nightmare is any indication, I would prefer that Oblivion be pushed back to make sure it is stable and optimized.
If I were in charge of these fora, I probably wouldn't bother going through all of these threads.
Seriously, it's one thing to complain (and I'm not disputing that there may be real good grounds for that); but if there is any line back to Firaxis thru these threads, then perhaps a single angst thread would be "fruitful" (I hate that word but it fits).
I find it better to post exactly what I have; if it's oddball (I myself have a rarer AIW Radeon from 3.5 years ago), then you can hook up with other people who have similar hardware. If your hardware is common, then that's a clue/hint that there is something else (possibly something you can change/fix) that is causing the problem.
There is an element of "shillness" on these boards, but I am glad that someone else has taken the time to post 11K posts; I get a real service out of these boards (this one and apolyton). So I can take a bit of peevishness. How would you feel if your loyal fan forums were invaded by a bunch of fairweather fan complainers?
Because I know (sorry but it may be true) that when I solve my problems I'm probably going to stop by less and less...
Seriously, it's one thing to complain (and I'm not disputing that there may be real good grounds for that); but if there is any line back to Firaxis thru these threads, then perhaps a single angst thread would be "fruitful" (I hate that word but it fits).
I find it better to post exactly what I have; if it's oddball (I myself have a rarer AIW Radeon from 3.5 years ago), then you can hook up with other people who have similar hardware. If your hardware is common, then that's a clue/hint that there is something else (possibly something you can change/fix) that is causing the problem.
There is an element of "shillness" on these boards, but I am glad that someone else has taken the time to post 11K posts; I get a real service out of these boards (this one and apolyton). So I can take a bit of peevishness. How would you feel if your loyal fan forums were invaded by a bunch of fairweather fan complainers?
Because I know (sorry but it may be true) that when I solve my problems I'm probably going to stop by less and less...
Meat Wad
Chieftain
First
Take-Two Troubles Gaming Sector
By Richard Suttmeier
RealMoney.com Contributor
9/8/2005 10:15 AM EDT
There's a lot of action in the video-game segment this week.
Wednesday morning Take-Two Interactive (TTWO:Nasdaq - news - research - Cramer's Take), Electronic Arts (ERTS:Nasdaq - news - research - Cramer's Take) and THQ Inc. (THQI:Nasdaq - news - research - Cramer's Take) announced the release of new games for the holiday season
Then Wednesday afternoon Take-Two released disappointing earnings, reporting a loss of 41 cents a share against expectations for a loss of 38 cents, and lowering guidance for the remainder of 2005.
That all raises the question: Will holiday sales of video games hold up in the face of expected consumer stress?
Take Two Interactive: My model shows the stock 19.2% overvalued with a negative weekly chart pattern, which stays negative on a weekly close below its 5-week modified moving average at $24.81. Before reporting earnings on Wednesday after the closes TTWO was just below my quarterly pivot at $24.27, which has been a magnet in recent weeks. In after-hours trading TTWO sold off, and traded around my weekly pivot at $22.62. Above $24.27 is a monthly risky level at $25.67. (A risky level is a price at which investors are likely to reduce holdings, according to my models.)
http://www.thestreet.com/comment/richardsuttmeier/10241559.html
And then
Civilization IV preorder incentive announced
The sequel to Sid Meier's history-strategy series will arrive early, and with bonus materials for those who prepay.
In its earnings report yesterday, Take-Two Interactive revealed that one of its most anticipated PC games, Sid Meiers Civilization IV, would arrive several weeks earlier than planned. Today, Take-Two subsidiary 2K Games reconfirmed that Civ IV will arrive in October 2005, rather than mid-November as previously expected.
By Tor Thorsen
Posted Sep 8, 2005 4:48 pm PT
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationiv/news.html?sid=6132818
Coincidence?
Look at the big picture, people.
Take-Two Troubles Gaming Sector
By Richard Suttmeier
RealMoney.com Contributor
9/8/2005 10:15 AM EDT
There's a lot of action in the video-game segment this week.
Wednesday morning Take-Two Interactive (TTWO:Nasdaq - news - research - Cramer's Take), Electronic Arts (ERTS:Nasdaq - news - research - Cramer's Take) and THQ Inc. (THQI:Nasdaq - news - research - Cramer's Take) announced the release of new games for the holiday season
Then Wednesday afternoon Take-Two released disappointing earnings, reporting a loss of 41 cents a share against expectations for a loss of 38 cents, and lowering guidance for the remainder of 2005.
That all raises the question: Will holiday sales of video games hold up in the face of expected consumer stress?
Take Two Interactive: My model shows the stock 19.2% overvalued with a negative weekly chart pattern, which stays negative on a weekly close below its 5-week modified moving average at $24.81. Before reporting earnings on Wednesday after the closes TTWO was just below my quarterly pivot at $24.27, which has been a magnet in recent weeks. In after-hours trading TTWO sold off, and traded around my weekly pivot at $22.62. Above $24.27 is a monthly risky level at $25.67. (A risky level is a price at which investors are likely to reduce holdings, according to my models.)
http://www.thestreet.com/comment/richardsuttmeier/10241559.html
And then
Civilization IV preorder incentive announced
The sequel to Sid Meier's history-strategy series will arrive early, and with bonus materials for those who prepay.
In its earnings report yesterday, Take-Two Interactive revealed that one of its most anticipated PC games, Sid Meiers Civilization IV, would arrive several weeks earlier than planned. Today, Take-Two subsidiary 2K Games reconfirmed that Civ IV will arrive in October 2005, rather than mid-November as previously expected.
By Tor Thorsen
Posted Sep 8, 2005 4:48 pm PT
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationiv/news.html?sid=6132818
Coincidence?
Look at the big picture, people.
HMSVictory
Chieftain
Excellent post Meat Wad. It sure sounds like this is probably the case. I do feel bad for the Firaxians though. It is a shame that such a great franchise has been damaged (Is this as bad as Call to Power?) by a poor publisher. I really wish Atari had not sold. I sure hope a patch comes soon. Thanks again for the analysis (or should we call it knowledgeable conjecture? JK .
.TheBarnacle
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2005
- Messages
- 92
Old Dood said:
well, that's one of the more ******ed things i've heard in defense of this game.
i actually have the game running better -- still not great -- such that i can play on 'large' maps well into the game. it still begins to lag once the map is revealed and all the civs are involved. but i can play.
but this begs the question for me: aren't i still getting ripped off???? i paid the same $50 for the game as those for whom the game runs perfectly. yet i have to reduce the graphics, the sound accel, the pixel shade, and a host of other things just to get an inferior resulting product to run...and STILL not as well.
if the game was MEANT to be played with cool graphics, and cool features that i can't use (despite having RECOMMENDED EQUIPMENT!!!), then i'm truly getting swindeled.
that said, the game is good enough. though, i seriously can't say it's been worth all the hassle. many of the new features are nice, but worth $50 bucks (and a new graphics card?)??? nah...i just don't find myself saying "just one more turn" b/c in late game, that turn could take 15 minutes!!!
ok, i exagerated. but you get my drift.
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