The second Finnish succession game: struggle for immortality
- Thread starter sinimusta
- Start date
Robert FIN
Emperor
Yes! I can take care of messing up the game beating up Stalin. Do you guys want to give me any instructions, or do you want me to just freestyle the attack? We must be careful now, so I might need help to win Immortal battle (help me to plan the PPP).
lurker's comment:
Hope some of this helps.
Swap into Representation. I'd not wait for Bureaucracy to become available - I'd do the Representation swap soon, even though you've got very few specialist slots available.
Cancel Deer <> Corn deal with Rome (not that you need back your Deer resource especially, but you're giving away Corn to Rome for no benefit).
Swap technology to Civil Service and increase the tech' rate. You'll be wanting to set up lots of chained Farms when it come in due to your generally food-poor land (with the exception of Lakama and Aksum, the latter can whip out the Ball Court > Library). I can see that there's a binary research strategy going on, but even if Joao, Zara Yaqob, or Huyana Capac get Civil Service first, you won't have anything of interest to them to trade it for, so you may as well just self research it at 70%
or whatever. Swapping to Representation and then Bureaucracy does mean two turns of anarchy in the same turnset, but well worth it.
Try to optimise Worker use - e.g. Addis Ababa really needs a food positive tile, and should have that tile two-south Farmed off the Oasis, while I doubt there's any need to road to that second Horse pasture.
Cancel Deer <> Corn deal with Rome (not that you need back your Deer resource especially, but you're giving away Corn to Rome for no benefit).
Swap technology to Civil Service and increase the tech' rate. You'll be wanting to set up lots of chained Farms when it come in due to your generally food-poor land (with the exception of Lakama and Aksum, the latter can whip out the Ball Court > Library). I can see that there's a binary research strategy going on, but even if Joao, Zara Yaqob, or Huyana Capac get Civil Service first, you won't have anything of interest to them to trade it for, so you may as well just self research it at 70%
or whatever. Swapping to Representation and then Bureaucracy does mean two turns of anarchy in the same turnset, but well worth it.Try to optimise Worker use - e.g. Addis Ababa really needs a food positive tile, and should have that tile two-south Farmed off the Oasis, while I doubt there's any need to road to that second Horse pasture.
Hope some of this helps.
Robert FIN
Emperor
Thanks Cam, I'll follow the points as good as I can. Someone has something else to say? More tips? I'll probably wait ~4-5h before I start playing.
First what are your own thoughts about our war situation, techpath, diplo, city and worker management and so on?
War: have you looked at the save? I left a stack 3S of St.pete, which I think should go take it. The army near Moscow could head towards Novgorod, the shrine city, and heal while bombarding (1-2 turns) since we have the medic general Talvela there.
I don't guarantee that my notes on enemy garrisons are 100% right, they may have moved the units back and forth. Whatch out for Chichen itza, Stalin has some troops in Yekaterinburg so keep an eye for them. Northern cities are the best land so prioritize them, capture the southern cities after them.
We'll get our GS in 4 turns if the scientists aren't fired, I'd wait until that before starting to run 100% science. Idk if it's better to start cs before that to get more food from additional farms sooner, it's basically beakers vs food (if teching cs).
When Feudalism comes available for trade try to get it (not for any price if they want gold don't give it, instead tech feud partially to get a discount).
I would give Lakamha's corn to the beaver city to start whipping there since Lakamha isn't a good whipping site, it needs to work cottages and has higher pop. Beaver city has lower pop, which means better conversion rates for whipping.
Teches: this depends on the long term plan. Get engineering for early mil victory as suggested earlier meaning mc-mach-eng route? I think this is doable. Or tech further towards lib? In both cases CS is ok tech giving access to maces and irrigation.
We haven't yet decided how to end this war with Stalin. I perhas should have planned that when I started the war. The problem is that we can't know for sure when feudalism is available for trade and that means it's harder to decide whether to capitulate him or not. Stalins southern cities aren't good but with GLH the coastal ones are ok so taking them is ok option. I hope that you'd wait for some comments on JSS and Sampsa instead of giving the team a time limit for responding.
Last thing, how long are you going to play? Until a certain city has fallen?
Edit: if something unexpected or threatening happens on the front, feel free to stop and ask for help.
War: have you looked at the save? I left a stack 3S of St.pete, which I think should go take it. The army near Moscow could head towards Novgorod, the shrine city, and heal while bombarding (1-2 turns) since we have the medic general Talvela there.
I don't guarantee that my notes on enemy garrisons are 100% right, they may have moved the units back and forth. Whatch out for Chichen itza, Stalin has some troops in Yekaterinburg so keep an eye for them. Northern cities are the best land so prioritize them, capture the southern cities after them.
We'll get our GS in 4 turns if the scientists aren't fired, I'd wait until that before starting to run 100% science. Idk if it's better to start cs before that to get more food from additional farms sooner, it's basically beakers vs food (if teching cs).
When Feudalism comes available for trade try to get it (not for any price if they want gold don't give it, instead tech feud partially to get a discount).
I would give Lakamha's corn to the beaver city to start whipping there since Lakamha isn't a good whipping site, it needs to work cottages and has higher pop. Beaver city has lower pop, which means better conversion rates for whipping.
Teches: this depends on the long term plan. Get engineering for early mil victory as suggested earlier meaning mc-mach-eng route? I think this is doable. Or tech further towards lib? In both cases CS is ok tech giving access to maces and irrigation.
We haven't yet decided how to end this war with Stalin. I perhas should have planned that when I started the war. The problem is that we can't know for sure when feudalism is available for trade and that means it's harder to decide whether to capitulate him or not. Stalins southern cities aren't good but with GLH the coastal ones are ok so taking them is ok option. I hope that you'd wait for some comments on JSS and Sampsa instead of giving the team a time limit for responding.
Last thing, how long are you going to play? Until a certain city has fallen?
Edit: if something unexpected or threatening happens on the front, feel free to stop and ask for help.
Robert FIN
Emperor
OK, I pressed too hard 
! No timelines. I wait for JSS and Sampsa to comment. However, I'm going to countryside at Thursday, so no gaming then. I will research CS, because of Irrigation and more melee power. I'm fine with a little smaller turnset than take over Stalin. I plan to take St. Petersburg and Novgorod, then save. If we try Domination Victory, we should keep all cities (IMO). What shall we do with the GS BtW?
! No timelines. I wait for JSS and Sampsa to comment. However, I'm going to countryside at Thursday, so no gaming then. I will research CS, because of Irrigation and more melee power. I'm fine with a little smaller turnset than take over Stalin. I plan to take St. Petersburg and Novgorod, then save. If we try Domination Victory, we should keep all cities (IMO). What shall we do with the GS BtW?Academy in Lakamha has been the plan (that's why we're banking gold).
lurker's comment:
^ Thanks for the explanation sinimusta ... I thought that you were waiting for the possibility of a trade deal on Civil Service, which is a tech' that I think would help a fair bit (for irrigation, but Maces req. Machinery).
Best of luck.
^ Thanks for the explanation sinimusta ... I thought that you were waiting for the possibility of a trade deal on Civil Service, which is a tech' that I think would help a fair bit (for irrigation, but Maces req. Machinery).
Best of luck.
Robert FIN
Emperor
@Sinimusta: Do you want me to wait till tomorrow morning or do I play today?
Robert FIN
Emperor
OK. I start playing soon. We have holiday from school in thursday and friday- september holiday, you know? Nevertheless, I go countryside in tomorrow middleday, so I'd be in hurry anyways
!
Robert FIN
Emperor
425AD
Save:
Spoiler :
Save:
Ok, checked the save. I noticed that you haven't made the civic change (to rep) yet. I checked if we were able to trade for feud but Joao wanted about 400 g + our teches for that, because he has almost completed cs himself. I'm not sure if we should still just get the trade since we could get something out civil service while Joao hasn't got it yet or tech bit further towards feud to get cheaper trade.
I want feud to be able to vassal Stalin, there is always risk of peacevassaling. Then I think we should check out our other neighbours since we do have a good army. I think we would be able to get a some more vassals with elepult army.
Civics: I thinking taking vassalage over bureau if we don't want to move our palace to Lakamha.
It is quite silent here. Is there a problem in how this game is being run? Would you like to return back to a clear turn order and if someone is busy, we would just wait? JSS, are you disappointed by how I got another player to your turnset while you were busy without asking from you?
I want feud to be able to vassal Stalin, there is always risk of peacevassaling. Then I think we should check out our other neighbours since we do have a good army. I think we would be able to get a some more vassals with elepult army.
Civics: I thinking taking vassalage over bureau if we don't want to move our palace to Lakamha.
It is quite silent here. Is there a problem in how this game is being run? Would you like to return back to a clear turn order and if someone is busy, we would just wait? JSS, are you disappointed by how I got another player to your turnset while you were busy without asking from you?
Robert FIN
Emperor
Hi! I came back from countryside now. I'll be more active now. I agree with you on that we should get Feudalism online and fast, since Stalin is finito now. If you guys have more questions to me or anything just ask here, I try to check the place daily, cause I'm back to home. I'm gettin' tired, good night!
Sorry for being inactive. I've been quite busy lately, and tbh. I've lost interest in Civ4. I think I'll drop out of this game because I don't think I'll have the time and motivation to make a positive contribution.
The situation's looking good. You'll win this game easily.
Robert FIN
Emperor
! Well, one cannot be always interested in the same thing all the time, so maybe your motivation to civ returns someday.Sorry to hear that but thanks for participating!
Robert I have a bad feeling that this game might be up to the two of us. We did accept Jouzou in the our last game during mid-game though so Finnish lurkers, if you're interested you're allowed to join.
I'll start making the ppp. Just noticed that Caesar the warmonger has started plotting, I think it's against Joao or Huana since they're quite close to him and only at cautious. We could use this to our advantage, for example kill the Roman stack when it's in open terrain and ideally wounded.
PPP:
I think I will go ahead and trade for Feud even though it costs over 400 g. Selfteching it would cost about 500g and it would be later. I want to be able to see immediately whether or not Stalin is willing to cap and thus decide where I'll move our units. I think we should capture Rostov since it puts cultural pressure on Moscow and I think Moscow will be our future Heroic epic site. My idea is that we don't keep killing Stalin even when we're going for dom (and get more pop and land for dom limits). Instead we use our advantage, big army, now and try to capitulate civs and keep rolling which will lead to dom or conq I don't really care which one.
Which bring us to the next question: who is the target (or if we should keep warring at all)? I think that we need more vassals to trade with. Almost all tech trades are now blocked by wfyabta which came in sooner than I thought. Everyone but Sully has longbows but that shouldn't be a surprise. I think we should attack Huana. He has been wonderspamming, although his wonders won't be that useful for us. Judging by what we can see his land seems good and is well cottaged and he doesn't have a big army.
There is also the question about what JC will do and how soon? As I said I think his most likely targets are inca and portugal so he might join our war. That means if we attacks inca we can't fool around but have cap inca asap to do it before JC does that. If he attacks Portugal that would be ideal. Joao has a vassal so he won't cap to Rome fast. I think we would be able to cap inca nad then maybe backstab Rome and kill his units in the open if he does attack Portugal.
Techpath will be towards engineering. After capping Stalin I'd trade for Aesth and then tech literature to unlock HE, since Moscow is a perfect site for HE(I think we should mostly settle our GGs there including the one we've got currently). I think we should bank gold until we have capped inca and then we can trade for MC and tech towards engineering.
Btw it's funny how Zara's workers are stuck surrounded by our borders. Would be easiest worker steal ever if we decided to attack Portugal.
I think I will go ahead and trade for Feud even though it costs over 400 g. Selfteching it would cost about 500g and it would be later. I want to be able to see immediately whether or not Stalin is willing to cap and thus decide where I'll move our units. I think we should capture Rostov since it puts cultural pressure on Moscow and I think Moscow will be our future Heroic epic site. My idea is that we don't keep killing Stalin even when we're going for dom (and get more pop and land for dom limits). Instead we use our advantage, big army, now and try to capitulate civs and keep rolling which will lead to dom or conq I don't really care which one.
Which bring us to the next question: who is the target (or if we should keep warring at all)? I think that we need more vassals to trade with. Almost all tech trades are now blocked by wfyabta which came in sooner than I thought. Everyone but Sully has longbows but that shouldn't be a surprise. I think we should attack Huana. He has been wonderspamming, although his wonders won't be that useful for us. Judging by what we can see his land seems good and is well cottaged and he doesn't have a big army.
There is also the question about what JC will do and how soon? As I said I think his most likely targets are inca and portugal so he might join our war. That means if we attacks inca we can't fool around but have cap inca asap to do it before JC does that. If he attacks Portugal that would be ideal. Joao has a vassal so he won't cap to Rome fast. I think we would be able to cap inca nad then maybe backstab Rome and kill his units in the open if he does attack Portugal.
Techpath will be towards engineering. After capping Stalin I'd trade for Aesth and then tech literature to unlock HE, since Moscow is a perfect site for HE(I think we should mostly settle our GGs there including the one we've got currently). I think we should bank gold until we have capped inca and then we can trade for MC and tech towards engineering.
Btw it's funny how Zara's workers are stuck surrounded by our borders. Would be easiest worker steal ever if we decided to attack Portugal.
Similar threads
