Ecofarm
Deity
Let them try internally first and foremost.
If they fail and are slaughtered, it makes the road that much longer.
Let them try internally first and foremost.
If they fail and are slaughtered, it makes the road that much longer.
I wish them the best of luck, but if the slaughtering starts I think we should step in immediately - while there are still leaders to save.
Anyone linked to this?
http://fora.tv/2009/07/09/Axis_of_Evil_Christopher_Hitchens#fullprogram
Only a small part is about Iran, but it's interesting. A recent Hitchens clip, where he predicts that the Iranian regime will fall, mainly because the Iranian youths have "seen through religion". He says he has big hopes for Iran.
Yep, that evil fascist that believed so much in concentrating power in the hands of the state, that he privatized state-owned assets, gave women the right to vote, and giving ownership of land to landless peasants.They ruined a perfectly good brutal fascist dictatorship merely because they no longer wanted to be oppressed by an American stooge.
Yep, that evil fascist that believed so much in concentrating power in the hands of the state, that he privatized state-owned assets, gave women the right to vote, and giving ownership of land to landless peasants.
Pahlavi Foundation. Look it up. It was his personal company where he funneled billions, upon billions dollars of Iranian money, much taken from oil revenues into his personal bank accounts, his so called 'land reform" during the White Revolution did very little to given pesants land, in fact its widely considered a failure, large estates got transfered to the noble family once more (see Ervand Abhramnian's, History of Iran).
The Shah alienated pretty much every section of society in the White Reveloution. He alienated the young intellectuals, students, and middle class by banning all parties except the pro-Shah Ressurection Party and forcing everyone to become a member, if you didn't become a member. His secret police jailed, tortured, and practiced dissapperances of dissenters and protesters. He grew incrasingly autocratic and heavy handed throughout his reign and styled himself as Arya Mehra (The Aryan Sun)
The religous establishment was alienated as the Shah banned the headscarf and veil and forcibly de-veiled women, then he went as far as jailing and exiling religous leaders like Kohmeni. Thus he lost the support of the generally pro-Shah religous establishment.
He alienated the bazaari's, the middle class, by attempting to excerscie price controls in the market place (sort of like Chavez) people who failed to agree to the price controls or pay his taxes would be jailed and their shops shut down, many of these measures were enforced by the Shah's feared secret police.
Despite pouring vast sums of money into the army, billions upon billions and purchasing large amounts of military hardware and equipment he failed to win the loyalty of even the army. They felt no loyalty to him. He used them frequently to break up portesters, he sent them into Qom to break up a protest by seminary students. It often turned into massacres of protesters. Thus when the Reveloution came the army stayed in its barracks.
He alienated even his own beuracracy, they felt more kinship with the middle class than with the Shah.
Thus all the support the Shah had left was the nobility.
So what happened in 1979 was the culmination of all these forces. The students, the intellectuals, the middle class, the baazaris, the communists, the liberals, the religous establishment joined together and overthrew the Shah in a bloodless reveloution. The Shah fled the country.
His own autorcracy, brutal methods, heavy handedness, and his foolish alienation of everyone who might have supported him was his undoing.
I'm really not that interested in debating the merits of the Shah at this time, but this post is filled with a lot of hyperbole. Look, we do not want anther Constitutional Monarchy in Iran - We want a secular democarcy.
That said, women's emancipation started with the dawn of the Pahlavi monarchy. During the time of the Shah, women served in the armed forces and police. It was even uncommon in many western countries to have female police officers in the 1960's. The Shah's regime also established some of the most progressive family laws, which gave Iranian women more rights than in most other countries in those times. Women were free to serve as judges in those times, which they are not today, and of course, women could dress freely in those times, which they can't today.
During the time of the Shah, 30% of higher education students were women. Today that number stands at 60%. This is nothing the current establishment can take credit for though. You see, many traditional and religious families refused to allow their daughters to attend universities before the revolution, due to the fact that the educational system was so secularized and because they thought that it was immoral and indecent to allow their daughters to mix with other women who wore mini-skirts and makeup. So when the revolution came, and the educational institutions were cleansed of all secularism and "immoral elements", many traditional and religious families allowed and encouraged their daughters and even wives to purse studies in higher education. The difference between now and the time of the Shah, is that women today are second class citizens when it comes to the laws of the state, and that they are forced to adhere to a so called "Islamic dress code", although there is nothing in the Quran that says that women need to cover themselves up. If a man kills his two year old son, he might face the death penalty, but if he kills his two year old daughter, he might get only one year! Those are the laws of these monsters.
My family, like millions of other Iranians were opposed to that revolution back then. Just because one million or so people took to the streets, it doesn't mean that the vast majority of Iranians were behind the revolution. We were part of the silent majority. But everything went against us - including the biased western media. We had no voice, and we lived in fear, because the radicals who opposed the imperial regime were the kind of people one should fear.
The imperial regime and top officials reeked of corruption, no question! As for the U.S. and other Western powers. I am no stranger to these things that you mention here. But I don't see why we should let any of that stand in our way now that the people of Iran are indeed fighting for their freedom in a REAL revolution. It's a complicated world we live in, and the politics of this world reflect how complicated it all is. But to see it in simple terms: Right now people are fighting for their freedom. Freedom from one of the most repressive and radical regimes in the world, which has tormented the Iranian people for 30+ years. Let's support them!
Yep. The one who took over after the CIA overthrew their democratically-elected government and put its own stooge in power. The same person who brutally tortured and murdered thousands of innocent Iranians.Yep, that evil fascist that believed so much in concentrating power in the hands of the state, that he privatized state-owned assets, gave women the right to vote, and giving ownership of land to landless peasants.
I'm sorry, what's supposed to happen on Feb 11?
Egroen, while I agree with the guts of what you are saying, it is acknowledged even in the west that at the very least, the current government does have a large minority support.
I'm not disputing most of this. What I'm disputing was amadeus's claim that the Shah was somehow better than the current regime. It wasn't.
Hang on, I'll just call the US, France and Britain and inform them that they are not pro-Western, since they obviously have their own nuclear programmes...I'm not sure a democratic Iran would be pro-Western. I think the nuclear programme, for example, would continue to be an issue unless the new government is so weak that they must cave in to foreign demands.
Hang on, I'll just call the US, France and Britain and inform them that they are not pro-Western, since they obviously have their own nuclear programmes...