BTW, Cam, I seem also to have been gaining so much from this game that I am doing pretty well on the 66GOTM Emperor - too early to hope for a successful end, but nevertheless...So, thanks again for all the insights! Keeping down tech trading to the bare min might be one of the most important - and counter-intuitive techniques in Civ 4!
The Sword of Osman
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
Glad things are going well for you. 
Normally WFYABTA isn't quite as much of an issue, however in this 'random personality' game;
We have drawn a very tough mob for technology trading!
Still, for what it's worth, personally I never trade for cheap technologies such as Fishing, Sailing, Mysticism, Meditation, Polytheism, etc. unless of clear crucial importance due to WFYABTA, although I am aware that some high level players do. I've occasionally refused receiving these as gifts also from AIs due to the WFYABTA count. With that said, at worst I'll usually try to find an ally who I can try to get to 'Friendly' to give me some access to tech' trading if things are tough - but again, it's rare to have so many unwilling tech' traders on the one map.
Normally WFYABTA isn't quite as much of an issue, however in this 'random personality' game;
(a.) Alexander is almost certainly Tokugawa, who is very reluctant to trade technologies,
(b.) Kublai Kahn was attacked by us (and likely to be backward) but now reluctant to trade, and
(c.) Every other 'random personality' leader has Hereditary Rule as their favourite civic (which I still find extraordinary), and only one in five of them (Catherine of Russia) is a willing tech' trader. I'm not really sure who's who within that Hereditary Rule crowd, or if indeed we've even drawn Catherine as one of the personalities.
(b.) Kublai Kahn was attacked by us (and likely to be backward) but now reluctant to trade, and
(c.) Every other 'random personality' leader has Hereditary Rule as their favourite civic (which I still find extraordinary), and only one in five of them (Catherine of Russia) is a willing tech' trader. I'm not really sure who's who within that Hereditary Rule crowd, or if indeed we've even drawn Catherine as one of the personalities.
We have drawn a very tough mob for technology trading!
Still, for what it's worth, personally I never trade for cheap technologies such as Fishing, Sailing, Mysticism, Meditation, Polytheism, etc. unless of clear crucial importance due to WFYABTA, although I am aware that some high level players do. I've occasionally refused receiving these as gifts also from AIs due to the WFYABTA count. With that said, at worst I'll usually try to find an ally who I can try to get to 'Friendly' to give me some access to tech' trading if things are tough - but again, it's rare to have so many unwilling tech' traders on the one map.
woopdeedoo
King
Gentlemen, apologies for not posting earlier! I haven't had a look at the save but, sadly, I had a look at our variant rules. We made a boo-boo and I believe my excitement was a little premature. We need to crush Alex before we crush Ram. This could be rather bad, considering we need to attack Alex with a weak army. That worries me. I will have a look at the save in a bit and post additional comments. Btw, my 3G airtime ran out so I will only have Inet access now and then...
woopdeedoo
King
Ok, so FR asked me to pick up the save and I have done so. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm worried about our variant as we are supposed to destroy Alex first. I await your comment on this. Additionally, I think that bringing Sal in as a war-ally could maybe, possibly perhaps save the day. Who vassalises Ram is not important, as long as he is vassalised 
To that end, my proposal is as follows:
Get Sal in on the action but we focus Exclusively on Thebes! That is our main target for now. If we can grab Alexandria, awesome. If not, too bad. Thebes is a gem we could use. After that, sue for peace, chase Alex. I'm pretty sure that Sal would join us in war there as well (eventually), if we make the bribe sweet enough!
Anyway Gents, I await your input. I will check my e-mail for notifications and will play as soon as we all agree on a PPP.
P.S. As I mentioned in my previous post, my 3G has run out so I will be checking mail on my phone tomorrow (Sunday). Cam, you are approx 7hrs ahead of me so please don't get too impatient
. FR, you are about 2~3 hrs ahead, so same goes for you, mister! Looking forward to the input before I play.
To that end, my proposal is as follows:
Get Sal in on the action but we focus Exclusively on Thebes! That is our main target for now. If we can grab Alexandria, awesome. If not, too bad. Thebes is a gem we could use. After that, sue for peace, chase Alex. I'm pretty sure that Sal would join us in war there as well (eventually), if we make the bribe sweet enough!
Anyway Gents, I await your input. I will check my e-mail for notifications and will play as soon as we all agree on a PPP.
P.S. As I mentioned in my previous post, my 3G has run out so I will be checking mail on my phone tomorrow (Sunday). Cam, you are approx 7hrs ahead of me so please don't get too impatient
. FR, you are about 2~3 hrs ahead, so same goes for you, mister! Looking forward to the input before I play.Crosspost with above
We might have more turns / years than first estimated. I was assuming turns of 25 years each, but in another game I'm playing (She Wolves), the clock from 1000AD has gone to turns of 10 years, meaning we have around 30 more turns than I earlier thought to deal with our two rivals. I've seen a timeline chart (year increments per turn) in these forums somewhere, but can't seem to find it now.
I'm still optimistic about our chances of taking Thebes with Cat's and War Elephants, which will really dent the strength of Ramesses. If we can also take Heliopolis and Alexandria, we should then be really in the 'driver's seat'.
Again - if making a super-medic, attach it to the Chariot: It's two-move, meaning it can move with a 1
stack (Cat's and War Elephants) and use its second movement point to heal the stack, while it also won't be likely to be selected as a defender in a stack that's attacked due to its poor defensive status and therefore has a high chance of survival.
We might have more turns / years than first estimated. I was assuming turns of 25 years each, but in another game I'm playing (She Wolves), the clock from 1000AD has gone to turns of 10 years, meaning we have around 30 more turns than I earlier thought to deal with our two rivals. I've seen a timeline chart (year increments per turn) in these forums somewhere, but can't seem to find it now.
I'm still optimistic about our chances of taking Thebes with Cat's and War Elephants, which will really dent the strength of Ramesses. If we can also take Heliopolis and Alexandria, we should then be really in the 'driver's seat'.
Again - if making a super-medic, attach it to the Chariot: It's two-move, meaning it can move with a 1
stack (Cat's and War Elephants) and use its second movement point to heal the stack, while it also won't be likely to be selected as a defender in a stack that's attacked due to its poor defensive status and therefore has a high chance of survival.woopdeedoo
King
Ok, since I am in front of my machine right now, I'm going to play a turn or two to see what happens and request additional input... BRB!
P.S. I'm lurking the She-Wolves game, you guys are doing pretty good
P.S. I'm lurking the She-Wolves game, you guys are doing pretty good
woopdeedoo
King
Ok, boys. Barely played a single turn and guess what happens, Ramesses builds the Hagia Sophia. Now what? Not even kidding.
Sorry ... re variant rules ... the Ottomans have to vassalise Egypt or otherwise Egypt must be destroyed, and likewise Greece. If Arabia vassalises Egypt, we're in trouble!
I'm tending to agree that we need to take Thebes, and as per my post above, if we can take Alexandria and Heliopolis and have Feudalism, Ramesses might be prepared to capitulate to us (if we're really lucky). Maybe after Arabia's war declaration, we ask him to attack Giza (Let's discuss something else > Why don't you attack > Giza) which will keep him out of the way of Thebes?
I'm not terribly concerned about taking Greece later on - he's worse than us on the PowerChart and technologically relatively poor.
I'm tending to agree that we need to take Thebes, and as per my post above, if we can take Alexandria and Heliopolis and have Feudalism, Ramesses might be prepared to capitulate to us (if we're really lucky). Maybe after Arabia's war declaration, we ask him to attack Giza (Let's discuss something else > Why don't you attack > Giza) which will keep him out of the way of Thebes?
I'm not terribly concerned about taking Greece later on - he's worse than us on the PowerChart and technologically relatively poor.
More cross-posts
Oh "shoot"!
Well - that's a loss.
I'm happy to play on with this, or start a new game. It's up to you two.
Oh "shoot"!
Well - that's a loss.
I'm happy to play on with this, or start a new game. It's up to you two.
woopdeedoo
King
Oh "shoot"!
Well - that's a loss.
I'm happy to play on with this, or start a new game. It's up to you two.
I am suddenly very sad too
. I feel a little defeated and don't feel that continuing after failure is really worth it. Maybe could start something new? I have to admit, playing with you guys has really been fun. I joined another SG (my first) which seems to have fizzled out. Additionally, there wasn't even close as much discussion as in this game. This constant analysis, in itself, is what kept me refreshing my email for notifications the whole time! I would love to play another. FR, what do you think? Have you managed to get your BtS working?
How sad! And I am really sorry, W, that it came in your turnset! I thought that MM will be building it, but Ram got a GrEng a couple of moves ago, and here we are...
OK, I'd like to give it another try. I suggest that we let HS be built by anyone - Cam, you won't be able to make it so that the Greeks build it, will you?! - but to have it also conquered by the time in the previus variant (BTW, there wasn't very much changed in the HS: there was a kind of pulpit added that was in Mecca's direction - a must with the Islam - the walls were painted so that no faces and human-like figures were seen on them, the shields with the inscriptions - of the names of the Prophet and the first khalifs, iirc - were hung, and some additional vases and the like were brought in. Also minarets were added, some new doors, etc, were installed. So, no major rebuilding on the part of the Osman - well, I guess the minarets are a significant addition to the original builduing, but all in all, structures added do not make up for one fifth of the whole Byzantine building: no offense to the Osman meant: it is stunning enough that they have preserved HS and used it for coronation purposes...
I think that in this way the variant won't be less demanding: actually it might require a third war within the same period of time, and also getting to know where HS was built, if Osman doesn't build it himself.
However, if you consider that this is easier, then we could throw in no selling of DR, which is consistent with the scenario.
Regrettably, I couldn't make the BtS work: I have read a lot on this problem, and, evidently, I can't delete some hidden files. The second brand-new copy of Complete I bought (the Euro edition without the Colonization, alas) continues to ask for the correct CD-ROM. It seems beyond my meagre IT skills... Otherwise, having Justinian would be a nice change... I like that picture...and the tune...
OK, I'd like to give it another try. I suggest that we let HS be built by anyone - Cam, you won't be able to make it so that the Greeks build it, will you?! - but to have it also conquered by the time in the previus variant (BTW, there wasn't very much changed in the HS: there was a kind of pulpit added that was in Mecca's direction - a must with the Islam - the walls were painted so that no faces and human-like figures were seen on them, the shields with the inscriptions - of the names of the Prophet and the first khalifs, iirc - were hung, and some additional vases and the like were brought in. Also minarets were added, some new doors, etc, were installed. So, no major rebuilding on the part of the Osman - well, I guess the minarets are a significant addition to the original builduing, but all in all, structures added do not make up for one fifth of the whole Byzantine building: no offense to the Osman meant: it is stunning enough that they have preserved HS and used it for coronation purposes...
I think that in this way the variant won't be less demanding: actually it might require a third war within the same period of time, and also getting to know where HS was built, if Osman doesn't build it himself.
However, if you consider that this is easier, then we could throw in no selling of DR, which is consistent with the scenario.
Regrettably, I couldn't make the BtS work: I have read a lot on this problem, and, evidently, I can't delete some hidden files. The second brand-new copy of Complete I bought (the Euro edition without the Colonization, alas) continues to ask for the correct CD-ROM. It seems beyond my meagre IT skills... Otherwise, having Justinian would be a nice change... I like that picture...and the tune...
Very good figuring out who's who, Cam
The big surprise for me was the JC personality of Osman! That does explain a lot of things, esp the stub in the back...
I am looking forward to whatever you set up! Shall we invite others to join? Might be good to have some more people on the board...
The big surprise for me was the JC personality of Osman! That does explain a lot of things, esp the stub in the back...
I am looking forward to whatever you set up! Shall we invite others to join? Might be good to have some more people on the board...
woopdeedoo
King
Um, incidentally, I played until 1020AD from FR's 660AD save and got the HS. Ramesses, however, is streaking ahead in tech and proving rather hard to beat
Um, incidentally, I played until 1020AD from FR's 660AD save and got the HS. Ramesses, however, is streaking ahead in tech and proving rather hard to beat
That's very fortunate of you, W!
Could you share the saves and provide some comments? I am especially interested in what happened differently between 660 AD and 800 AD... In my experience, AIs don't change track if there are no major shifts in the situation.
I don't mind at all if you and Cam ignore my turnset and continue from where you have miraculaously landed.
woopdeedoo
King
Ok sure. FR, did you see the new SG Cam set up?
Here:
The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu
I didn't to a proper report, simply played since we decided the game is lost. I can replay and make careful notes if you like?
[EDIT] I've attached the save from juuuust before HS gets built. I am on a downward spiral here cause I wasn't really paying too close attention (at work) but there you go[/EDIT]
[EDIT2] Wrong save
Just gimme a minute! [/EDIT2]
[EDIT3] There you go. The HS is about 8 turns away and I have worker pairs in place to chop out what we need. The army is decimated and the iron has been plundered. Workers en route to re-mine. Happiness is becoming a problem due to WW and Ram won't accept peace, except if we gift him Ankara.[/EDIT3]
Here:
The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu
I didn't to a proper report, simply played since we decided the game is lost. I can replay and make careful notes if you like?
[EDIT] I've attached the save from juuuust before HS gets built. I am on a downward spiral here cause I wasn't really paying too close attention (at work) but there you go
[/EDIT][EDIT2] Wrong save
Just gimme a minute! [/EDIT2][EDIT3] There you go. The HS is about 8 turns away and I have worker pairs in place to chop out what we need. The army is decimated and the iron has been plundered. Workers en route to re-mine. Happiness is becoming a problem due to WW and Ram won't accept peace, except if we gift him Ankara.[/EDIT3]
Similar threads
