So completing my triumvirate here of offering a few different options for people. My goal (assuming I can get people to counter propose some of these), is to offer several options to people in a VP congress proposal. this way they can decide on what "flavor" of espionage they want the game to proceed with.
Problems with the Current System
Here are the key issues I see or hear about with the current system.
Proposed Tweaks to the Current System
Yield Steal cannot cause negatives
For the various yield steal missions (gold, science, faith, etc). In the event that you have a negative income for that yield, the amount you lose from espionage is lowered until you are no longer negative. This does NOT impact how much the spy holder gets.
Example:
Lets say I currently am losing 15 GPT due to espionage. On a given turn, I have a -10 GPT income. In that situation, my espionage lost is dropped to 5 GPT (leaving my income at 0 GPT). The spy mission holder still recieves 15 GPT, and I lose 5 GPT.
If on the next turn I gain +20 GPT through a trade deal, the steal once again increases to the full 15 GPT amount.
Spy Resistance is removed from the game
As there is now a mechanic to reduce or increase the duration of spy missions, spy resistance serves little direct purpose, and just confuses things. So we will remove the mechanic entirely.
(Pending: Needs list of spy resistances and new benefit).
Mission Duration Adjustments
No Mission Spy Level Prereqs
All spy missions are now available for a 1st level spy.
Spy Kill/Discovered rates no longer lowered by spy resistance
The main reason that counterspies feel so weak right now is....they are. The way spy resistance is interacting with them greatly lowers their kill and identify chances. So even though a counterspy might give you a +50% base kill chance, the actual kill chance might be more like 10%.
Along with removing spy resistance, we will leave the base chances unaffected. So a counterspy with a +50% kill chance will actually give you a +50% kill chance, making them much more effective.
- Looking for a big change to espionage but keeps the complexity: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/stalker0s-espionage-proposal-draft-2-1.684398/
- Want to return to a more vanilla-esque simple espionage system: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-kiss-espionage-system-draft-1-1.684722/
- This version is meant to keep the current system but tweak some of the core problems.
Problems with the Current System
Here are the key issues I see or hear about with the current system.
- Spy Resistance has almost no impact to the current system.
- Gold stealing is too penalizing once it starts to stack up.
- Certain missions take far too long to complete.
- There isn't much defense against spies, counterspies and spy buildings don't seem to do too much.
Proposed Tweaks to the Current System
Yield Steal cannot cause negatives
For the various yield steal missions (gold, science, faith, etc). In the event that you have a negative income for that yield, the amount you lose from espionage is lowered until you are no longer negative. This does NOT impact how much the spy holder gets.
Example:
Lets say I currently am losing 15 GPT due to espionage. On a given turn, I have a -10 GPT income. In that situation, my espionage lost is dropped to 5 GPT (leaving my income at 0 GPT). The spy mission holder still recieves 15 GPT, and I lose 5 GPT.
If on the next turn I gain +20 GPT through a trade deal, the steal once again increases to the full 15 GPT amount.
Spy Resistance is removed from the game
As there is now a mechanic to reduce or increase the duration of spy missions, spy resistance serves little direct purpose, and just confuses things. So we will remove the mechanic entirely.
(Pending: Needs list of spy resistances and new benefit).
Mission Duration Adjustments
- Broaden Surveillance: 20 -> 10
- Steal Yields: 30 -> 20 (duration also lowered from 30 -> 20)
- Radicalize Citizenry: 25 -> 15 (duration lowered from 25 -> 15)
- Kidnap Specialists: 30 -> 20 (no duration change)
- Target Local City Defenses: 15 -> 5
- Steal Tech (need to confirm base mission duration)
- Forgery of Great Work (need to confirm base mission duration)
- Arm the local populace (need to confirm base mission duration)
No Mission Spy Level Prereqs
All spy missions are now available for a 1st level spy.
Spy Kill/Discovered rates no longer lowered by spy resistance
The main reason that counterspies feel so weak right now is....they are. The way spy resistance is interacting with them greatly lowers their kill and identify chances. So even though a counterspy might give you a +50% base kill chance, the actual kill chance might be more like 10%.
Along with removing spy resistance, we will leave the base chances unaffected. So a counterspy with a +50% kill chance will actually give you a +50% kill chance, making them much more effective.