Trade Routes Discussion

[dturtle1]

That sounds cool, the only issue is that they dont have an incentive to send trade routes to different cities that are yours, How will you get the A.I to trade with different Cities?
This would be required to build trading Post Chains. I do hope they share a bit on this sometime in the future

 

[joncnunn]

It's very unlikely you'll be building commercial districts in every city. Districts increase in cost for every one completed so that even if you want to specialize commercial you'll likely still need other districts as well. That is until we get a civ with unique commercial district which would alter the cost/benefit more favorably toward commercial districts.

While the Commercial district won't be the first district built in a given city without suitable terrain; it's currently the district most likely to be universal by the end of the game provided you can keep your trade units safe from barbarians and hostile AIs:

While each district does increase the cost of the next and so the start up cost increases over time; so does the per turn yield of trade routes.

 

[Acken]

I just hope they learnt from their mistake in CivBE. Please... never that again.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

In the latest released civilization 6 gameplay video, the one that the developers play as Norway and Spain the adjancecy bonus from rivers have been nerfed to only apply once per unique river so no longer will you get a massive yield from using a river.

Great Merchants seems to be very useful. Several of them provide envoys and getting good city state relations are a good way to improve your economy. Some of them have some rather interesting abilities such as Marcus Lacinius Crassus who will annex the tile he stands on (maybe no matter how far away it is from your nearest city).

Commerical hubs do get an adjancey bonus from harbour and it seems due to the trade post mechanics that trade routes get more powerful the more you have of them (atleast to the limit before all good trade routes have been used). So if you can build a harbour it may be a good idea to follow up with a commerical hub.

The question is who have use for alot of gold. Everyone could use gold to purchase great people but only democracy seems to be great at it. Purchase of buildings would mainly help setting up new cities which may still be founded in the later game if you raze conquered cities (to avoid possible conquest penalties).

Naturally the cost of building these districts will come at a cost of other districts. Gold wont give you wonders it seems so if you are going for culture you may focus on production over gold (there is a limit on how many great works you can store anyway so purchase of great artist may not be as interesting as other great people).

Mainly I think gold will be interesting for military players who need alot of gold to support and upgrade its military and is likely to often switch civics also there are a limit on how useful production is for military buildup while gold being a global resource allow you to build up your military at any point of your empire may be much more useful then the more effective but local production. Science focused civs may also want gold to purchase great scientist and science buildings. Everyone will however benefit alot from great merchants.

 

[dturtle1]

NEW UPDATE I was wrong... in some things

Trading Posts only work in foreign Cities.(unless you a Rome) So you still have to create chains, however not in your cities. This is quite easier to maintain, Foreign ports are going to be gold mines

Trading Range is 15 for Land and 30? for Sea. Trading Posts re up trading Range... Well done Seek

Trading Posts dont appear to decay... it make some sense now, especially with Rome's ability....although i am little sad , This not confirmed however, maybe you do need an active trade route to have an active trading Post. It does kinda make sense in regards to the previous point. You first need to send a trade route within 15 tiles and then you can send another trade route between 15-30. Allowing the 1st trading post to remain active without an Active Trade Route kinda breaks the Chain.

Roads do definitely seem to auto upgrade(It wouldn't make sense with Rome's Ability to require re-stamping)

The Overall point though remains the same, you will need to structure your trading routes carefully to get the maximum effectiveness out of them. It is definitely more beneficial to concentrate your trade routes rather than spread them out. Make sure they run thru Trading Posts when you can

Side Note on Rome's ability. I feel this ability makes Rome the defacto internal trade routes guy which i dont really like. I feel Internal Trade routes should not be the domain of just one Civ. I am thinking some kind of policy or equivalent should be able to give at least part of the ability.(Trade routes establish Trading Posts in your own cities) . the ability is just too useful for any Large Empire.

 

[CellKu]

If you have a look at Quill18's video at roughly 7:00 he get a new Trader. I cant see a relocate button can you, maybe they are linked to Cities with "extra" from Tech/Civic Trees linked to the Capital,, idk. I would assumed you could relocate as you desire but i understand the micro nightmare that will entice... maybe we will have to wait see.

But didn't Ed relocate one of the Traders in his playthorugh yesterday? I think I remember that he wanted to send it from Rome, so he had to relocate. May I am wrong.

 

[dturtle1]

But didn't Ed relocate one of the Traders in his playthorugh yesterday? I think I remember that he wanted to send it from Rome, so he had to relocate. May I am wrong.

Nahh.. you were right.. This conversation was before it was confirmed. In my previous post i acknowledged this.

Yes You can Relocate Trade Routes as you desire

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Really disappointed in the "from any city" trade routes. This means for any trade route, you not only need to find the best target, but also the best source.

Of course, that might be why trade posts in your own cities don't give your trade routes extra gold. A land trade route from Moscow to Seoul gives the same yield as one from Vladivostok to Seoul....districts at target + Foreign cities passed through.

Since range does "reup", I'm surprised its 15...10 sounds better for land...if you want a trade route across a continent, Somone has to have a city there (also sea should be better range wise...10 for land, 40 for sea sounds better)

 

[dturtle1]

I know right... i thought the Trade route Linked to City---->trading posts both foreign and domestic had some cool potential.. This way works as well, just not quite as cool , Though i feel the Rome benefit could have been handled a bit different, I dont see why only Rome should benefit from internal trading posts. Idk maybe Arabia get something similar but still, Internal Trading Posts work better as a Government Policy(maybe there is one) though it would be strange to have a Policy that duplicates an Unique effect. Rome just doesn't need to get it and saves a policy slot?...idk

 

[Seek]

NEW UPDATE I was wrong... in some things

Trading Posts only work in foreign Cities.(unless you a Rome) So you still have to create chains, however not in your cities. This is quite easier to maintain, Foreign ports are going to be gold mines

Trading Range is 15 for Land and 30? for Sea. Trading Posts re up trading Range... Well done Seek

Whee! Regarding the bolded bits, trading posts in your own cities still reup the range if I understand correctly, you just don't get the gold unless you're Rome. So they are still important for other civs to get.

Side Note on Rome's ability. I feel this ability makes Rome the defacto internal trade routes guy which i dont really like. I feel Internal Trade routes should not be the domain of just one Civ. I am thinking some kind of policy or equivalent should be able to give at least part of the ability.(Trade routes establish Trading Posts in your own cities) . the ability is just too useful for any Large Empire.

Eh, it's only 1G per city (barring other factors we don't know about, such as a policy), which is not that significant imo.

I actually think Rome will be more focused on external TRs: since they will already have the roads and TPs built they can ignore internal ones (especially early since the yields aren't that great) and focus on getting science, gold and other "rarer" yields. Should be interesting to see how players approach this civ.

 

[dturtle1]

Whee! Regarding the bolded bits, trading posts in your own cities still reup the range if I understand correctly, you just don't get the gold unless you're Rome. So they are still important for other civs to get.



Eh, it's only 1G per city (barring other factors we don't know about, such as a policy), which is not that significant imo.

I actually think Rome will be more focused on external TRs: since they will already have the roads and TPs built they can ignore internal ones (especially early since the yields aren't that great) and focus on getting science, gold and other "rarer" yields. Should be interesting to see how players approach this civ.

Not quite... It is 1G per Trade Route per City. You have 10 Trade routes going through that one city it becomes pretty significant

If you are going to send a trade route to an internal City to extend your range, you might as well send the trade route from that city, the outcome is exactly the same and you are not using an extra trade route(to create the trading post)

Sure, you can run external trade routes as Rome, but you get the extra gold from going through your cities regardless, making it more likely that you will try and have trade routes, even external ones, running through your cities.

 

[rastak]

Not quite... It is 1G per Trade Route per City. You have 10 Trade routes going through that one city it becomes pretty significant

If you are going to send a trade route to an internal City to extend your range, you might as well send the trade route from that city, the outcome is exactly the same and you are not using an extra trade route(to create the trading post)

Sure, you can run external trade routes as Rome, but you get the extra gold from going through your cities regardless, making it more likely that you will try and have trade routes, even external ones, running through your cities.

Can you even get 10 routes?

Like the fact Rome is a trading civ, looks like fun. They all do actually....

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Can you even get 10 routes?

Like the fact Rome is a trading civ, looks like fun. They all do actually....

Max trade routes are ~2 per city in your empire
(Harbors, Commercial districts both add 1)

 

[dturtle1]

Easily.. trade routes are dependent primarily on the number of Commerce hubs and Harbours. So Endgame as England with, lets say 15 cities, just to be arbitrary, is 30+ Trade routes

 

[Brutus2]

Whee! Regarding the bolded bits, trading posts in your own cities still reup the range if I understand correctly, you just don't get the gold unless you're Rome. So they are still important for other civs to get.



Eh, it's only 1G per city (barring other factors we don't know about, such as a policy), which is not that significant imo.

I actually think Rome will be more focused on external TRs: since they will already have the roads and TPs built they can ignore internal ones (especially early since the yields aren't that great) and focus on getting science, gold and other "rarer" yields. Should be interesting to see how players approach this civ.

I agree. It seems the trading post gold will be a small bonus. When setting up a trade route the destination is much more important then worrying about how to maximize the number of trade posts you can pass through.

As Rome, is it safe to say that most likely you will want your trade routes to start as far away from the destination as possible so they pass through more of your cities on the way? For other Civs you dont care so much where the route begins since the starting city doesn't effect the yield, correct?

 

[Seek]

Not quite... It is 1G per Trade Route per City. You have 10 Trade routes going through that one city it becomes pretty significant

If you are going to send a trade route to an internal City to extend your range, you might as well send the trade route from that city, the outcome is exactly the same and you are not using an extra trade route(to create the trading post)

Sure, you can run external trade routes as Rome, but you get the extra gold from going through your cities regardless, making it more likely that you will try and have trade routes, even external ones, running through your cities.

I was responding to your thought that "this ability makes Rome the defacto internal trade routes guy", and I don't think that is necessarily the case, especially early-game (by the time you have 10+ TRs available it will probably be mid-game).

The gold is decent, but not game-changing, and ramps up evenly throughout the game.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Is it not just that for each trade post the caravan passes the gold is increased by 1. Rome have the advantage that its own trade post increase the value of its trade routes but it do not matter if the trade route end in a Roman or foregine city.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Is it not just that for each trade post the caravan passes the gold is increased by 1. Rome have the advantage that its own trade post increase the value of its trade routes but it do not matter if the trade route end in a Roman or foregine city.

I think that is true normally

My city1----Foreign city-----my city2

That trade route should get me extra gold (once I have a Trade post in the foreign city) for any civ
(not that the setup is likely)

 

[dturtle1]

I agree. It seems the trading post gold will be a small bonus. When setting up a trade route the destination is much more important then worrying about how to maximize the number of trade posts you can pass through.

As Rome, is it safe to say that most likely you will want your trade routes to start as far away from the destination as possible so they pass through more of your cities on the way? For other Civs you dont care so much where the route begins since the starting city doesn't effect the yield, correct?

@Seek as well , Yeah sure early game when internal trade routes are more about setting up infrastructure, but mid-late game? By running internal trade routes you are essentially giving up the extra gold from your foreign trading posts. Running internal trade routes later in the game is going to be expensive in potential opportunity cost.

Yeah that is correct. However i think you a underestimating the trading post potential. It potentially scales exponentially. 10 trade routes passing through 10 Roman cities = 100g base gold. 20 Trade routes passing through 20 Roman Cities = 400g. Now getting your trade routes to all go through all cities is not feasible, but the potential is there and maybe you get 50-75% efficiency with a large empire. That is still pretty significant.(say 250-350g of 20 trade routes) I feel the placement of your cities to encourage them to flow through your cities rather than create a new route. is going to important and a bit tricky.

Good Harbour Cities are going to huge trading cities, organically and dynamically.(especially when dealing with intercontinental trade) One thing i am curious about is how the trade routes "rate" sea travel@30 base range to land travel@15 base range. When given the choice to travel from harbour to Harbour along a coast will it prefer to use the sea or the create a new road on land ?. I feel there is going to be a little bit of an Art to setting up an efficient, large Trading Empire. Imagine a 50-60 Trade route empire as England with foreign Harbour Cities with 20-30 Trade routes flowing through them . Idk, but iam excited at finding all this out for myself come Oct 21