TSG 160 After Actions

[Knowtalent]

Welcome to the TSG160 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!
STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.
Please use the Civ5 game submission page to submit your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.).
- How useful was your UA?
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
- What techs did you prioritize ?
- Did you try and get a sacred site victory?

 

[poxpower]

I was going to win but the last AI with 0 cities is still here somehow. What? He's the culture leader, I took him out to win, but he has no cities yet is still alive. What is going on there? This isn't normal

Moderator Action: Moved to After Action thread as I could not tell if this was a test game or the actual game. leif

 

[aafritz17]

Hmmm pace is standard + No city razing + Complete Kills + No Barbs.
Also was this map edited ? Tile NE of start is an invisible mountain.

Yup, and there's another one a couple tiles farther north-east. And 2 of the same NW.

Moderator Action: Moved to After Action thread as the only way you could know this is to have opened the save. Please do NOT post in the Announcement thread if you have opened the save. This is a spoiler. If there are map problems, please start a conversation with the map designer. Thanks.

I've always thought all these GotM maps were edited, at least to some degree. This one maybe just a little more.

 

[poxpower]

Mods: This was kind of a relevant detail for the announcement thread as "complete kills" wasn't listed in the map specification and it's a hugely important detail for culture victory :/
Now I don't know if I should play this game out for the extra 10-20+ turns or just scrap and restart and submit that second attempt, knowing I can't win reliably via military.
Also an AI completed Uffizi the same turn I engineered it lol YOU DIE YOU STUPID AI THAT'S CHEATING.

 

[aafritz17]

@mod, might have been better to move those to an Opening Actions thread. I know, there isn't one...

Rage quit. Spain DOW T65 (killed her navy over and over, would never peace-out); Rome DOW T128, Denmark DOW T152. Peace with Rome T156. Hooked up iron T160, got one frigate, but too late. Denmark took Babylon T163.

 

[zxcvbob]

I would post this in Opening Actions, but there's not an OA thread this time. I'm on about turn 150. Been at war with my former friend Spain for much of the game. I think she declared war the same turn the DoF ended. My galleasses are killing her units right and left, and she's not killing any of mine but she can build more units faster than I can kill them so she will not discuss peace. (Also I liberated a CS; unfortunately it was a maritime CS) The war is keeping me from sending any trade routes or settling new cities. I probably won't finish the game, but I haven't given up yet.

I opened with Liberty and went for the free settler first, then the free worker. I found 2 population ruins and I built a settler the hard way before getting the free one, so I had 3 cities up pretty quick. Settled in place, on the iron, and next to that natural wonder on the island to the NE. I managed to get One with Nature and two religious buildings so I opened Piety and went for Sacred Sites and I got it. I have about 8 cities now and all of them have pagodas and monasteries. I just got an unwanted 3rd prophet because I didn't have any place to buy 2 more buildings. I'm at 20% to 30% influence with everybody, but they are spamming wonders like crazy and have decent tourism themselves so SS is not going to get me there, I will have to hold out for Futurism if I play this out.

Edit: I captured a big Spanish city last night on turn 180, I think it was Barcelona. Defended it for a couple of turns and then Isabella was ready for peace because I was threatening Madrid. I didn't really want to try taking Madrid because she just got Navigation too and was spamming privateers and I didn't want to lose any of my fleet, and also I have good relations with the other AI's and didn't want to spoil that. Now I'm finally building cargo ships. I wonder what AI is going to want a piece of me next...

 

[poxpower]

Well this is the one I submitted. Turn 228 culture victory.
As I said I played another before where I attempted to win by killing the culture leader but didn't know "complete kills" was on so yah. Feel free to not include this submission if you want.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 160
Date submitted: 2017-07-09 14:09:12
Reference number: 35494
Your name: poxpower
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1590AD
Turns played: 228
Base score: 904
Final score: 2008
Time played: 3:02:00
Submitted save: gotm160_pox_0228 AD-1590.Civ5Save
Renamed file: poxpower_C516001.Civ5Save

So the starting spot was hard but ultimately I moved my settler next to the wonder because I wanted my religion ASAP and buying that wonder is expensive otherwise. You get it faster by settling 2 turns later than waiting like 15 turns to get enough gold for it. I also thought that there was no mountain on that gold start so that can't work. You need a mountain for science/culture games. Anyway, I got "one with nature" pantheon which got me fast religion. I took production from followers as I was at war with the city-state to steal workers. Then I enhanced to food when not at war and peaced out, having stolen only like 2 workers. Lame but whatever.

Moving the warrior I got a map ruin to see second wonder. I settled 2 other cities on my continent then just went turbo tall tradition wonder spam with production + food religion. I just paid the AI to fight each other which resulted in most of them being my friend all game so I could get like 8-10 research agreements and gold loans to rush universities / observatory / public schools / labs in capital.

I got so many wonders that game is was ridiculous.
Cap: Broadway, Eiffel Tower, Hanging gardens, Leaning tower, Uffizi, Oracle
Expand1: Globe theatre, Taj mahal, machu pichu
expand2: Sistine chapel

- How useful was your UA?
Went straight into writing then grabbed hanging gardens and oracle. More scientists very strong for culture and was able to get to key tech faster to get leaning tower.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Kind of. I used early diplomats to buy world religion vote. It cost me like 60-70 gpt overall but that's like a 50% tourism boost all game it's insane if you get it.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Map was ok. Land was restricted though, only 3 cities in the end, but no one attacked me because I kept paying them to fight each other and there were no contested borders.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Well I didn't try sacred sites lol. Also obviously ignored great library even as babylon whereas otherwise you would try that I guess. Somehow though I got every wonder I wanted anyway, except maybe collossus and parthenon

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?

Went full tradition into full aestathics into order / rationalism. Bulbed my way to internet and bought my musicians with faith. Made one crappy settle and gifted to indonesia and gifted a city to siam to end the game. Picked order because science from factories and tourism bonus to other order civs. When you have lots of tourism other civs often pick the same thing, and they love to pick order. Fortunately Indonesia, who was culture leader, picked Order as his ideology lol. THANKS. Siam didn't though and that was annoying because it gives you a big penalty to have different ideologies. He made me was a musician on him because of that.

- What techs did you prioritize ?
Went to writing, then math, then philosophy, then education, astronomy, acoustics, printing press, architecture, scientific theory, oxford into radio, industrialization ( for factory science from order ) into archaology, refrigeration, plastics then internet.

- Did you try and get a sacred site victory?
newp

I can't believe how basically everything worked out perfectly in this game. Getting Leaning Tower was huge as I got an engineer to rush uffizi right away. Had to build broadway early though, the stupid AI always builds it so you can't save it for later with internet. In the end it might not even be worth the production for a relatively weak musician.

 

[Acken]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 160
Date submitted: 2017-07-10 01:00:07
Reference number: 35496
Your name: Acken
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1575AD
Turns played: 225
Base score: 1159
Final score: 2575
Time played: 5:52:00
Submitted save: TSG170_Win.Civ5Save

Early Game T0-T108:
Techs (ommiting intermediaries): Writing, Mining, Optics, AH BW Trapping Calendar Drama Philo MC CS Education(T108)
Policies: Tradition(6) Aesthetics(1)
Ruins: Gold, Pop, Map, Gold, Pop, Culture, Gold, Pop

Babylon: Worker Monument Granary Worker Trireme Settlerx3 Trireme LightHouse Cargox2 WB Library Guild NC WS WM Shrine Temple Garden
Akkad: Granary Library Lighthouse WB WM WS
DK: Granary Library Lighthouse WB Cargo WS Shrine
Nippur: Worker(buy) Library Granary Lighthouse WB WS Shrine

Notes:
I don't really like large islands usually because of the lack of room and overall slow development. The script for making these maps is usually pretty bad also for secondary locations.
On the other hand the capital here is really good so combined with Complete Kills option it begs for a peaceful culture tradition game.
This means the early game will focus on getting 4 cities going and 2 of them feeding the capital. Exploration will require Trireme.

Religion is founded thanks to Sri Pada and One With Nature. I then pick Swords+Tithe

Spoiler :

Mid Game T108-167:
Techs (ommiting intermediaries): Guilds Compass Machinery Astronomy Acoustics PP Gunpowder Chemistry(bulb) Fertilizer(bulb) ScientificTheory(T155) Indusrialization Archaeo(T167)
Policies: Aesthetics(2) Rationalism(4)

Babylon: University Guild IW Observatory Sistine(T138) LtoP(T146) Uffizi(rush T147) Opera Hermitage GrandTemple NE School(buy) Guild Factory(buy) TajMahal(T166)
Akkad: University Shrine Temple MachuPichu(T134) Amphi WB Opera GT(T156) School Frigate Market
DK: University Temple WB Amphitheater Harbor WB Opera Galleas x2 School
Nippur: University Cargo Temple Harbor Amphi WB Opera Oxford(prebuilt) Galleas School Observatory Archaeo Museum Archaeo

Notes:
Finished religion at T125 and picked RC RT.
Reloaded at T150 because GPU crash. Nothing particular this turn to replay it as I did.
Some of these wonders feel rather lucky. MachuPichu I guess nobody had a mountain but GlobeTheater T156 is late.
The only real threat though in wonder stealing was Ramkhamheng so I spent a lot of time looking at his terrain for wonders models.
Bribed Ramkhaeng to hope it would slow him down and slow down his Taj Mahal.

Spoiler :

End Game T167-T225
Techs : Radio Refrigeration Plastics Internet (T217)
Policies : Aesthetics(3) Freedom(3) Aesthetics(6) Exploration(1) Freedom(6) Rationalism(6) Freedom(8) Patronage(1)

Babylon: Archaeox2 WF Museum Broadway(T190) BT(buy) Archaeo Louvre(rush T202) Eiffel(T203) Hotel(buy) Submarine(buy) SoL(T214) SydneyOpera (rush T217) PT(T219) NVC(T223)
Adkkad: Archaeo Museum Archaeox3 BT Hotel Settler Cargo x3
DK: WF Archaeo Museum Archaeox3 BT Hotel
Nippur: WF Archaeo Museum Archaeo Cargo Archaeox2 BT Hotel

Notes
Danemark declared war around T204 with mostly privateer and caravel. Not that hard to fend off.
Enf was trivial with only Siam as a dominant culture around 18K at the moment of finish. 2 bombs were enough even if only at 400tourism. Even had an extra natural GM ready for more.

Spoiler :

End wonders like Sydney were just for fun. There was some room for a bit faster finish (below T220) if I had better handled the synchronisation with hotels and NVC. I basically ended up waiting 7 turns after internet for it.

 

[poxpower]

awe man 225 lol SO CLOSE, SO CLOSE

 

[Rogerio_AA]

Game status: Culture Loss
Game date: 1852AD
Turns played: 296
Final score: 1154
Time played: 10:30:00

- How useful was your UA?
Was userful, due the defensive bonus of the Walls - Spain decided to start a war just in the beginning of the game...

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Yes, to take some techs from Spain.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
The map forced me develop a naval game, making a lot of frigates and privateers for confront Spain, instead of maintain my focus in expand my Culture.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
It was difficult to me, with all Civs making Wonders, and Spain making a lot of Triremes and Galeass... I need to play more games in Deity Level.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Tradition completed due the small number of cities, and Exploration to improve my ships for the endless war.
And the Order Ideology was choosed because the other Civs adopted too.

- What techs did you prioritize?
I've gone direct to Compass and Navigation, to upgrade my Triremes and Galeass, and get the maritime supremacy, at least until the Modern Era.
I had, at the end of game, a dozen of Frigates with +1 Ranged Attack - very usefull to attack and conquer all the spanish cities - four Frigates with Logistics, and two of them Level 8!
Great fun confronting the enemy!



- Did you try and get a sacred site victory?
No, I didn't had the opportunity.

 

[beetle]

CV, turn 434 (2014AD), final score 2988 (2570 base)

Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title)

Can posts have titles any more?

How useful was your UA?

Science is king, but still not really noticeable for me until the end game. The UU and UB saved me from Spain.

Did you use spying to your advantage?

No more than usual, so three techs.

Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?

It very much helped, as I am sure if Spain could have walked to me, that I would have lost my cap.

How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

It meant I played conservatively. I have won Deity CV maybe only twice before.

What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?

The usual: Tradition, two in Aesthetics (for the hammers), Rationalism until Freedom, then filled Aesthetics, filled Rationalism, and had time to open Commerce for Big Ben.

What techs did you prioritize?

Writing earlier than usual, Philosophy, CS then MC. Then tried to get Sistine Chapel (missed) and Porcelain Tower (missed).

Did you try and get a sacred site victory?

Tried on a replay. Took me even longer!

Great games, thanks for the map! I tried it twice more and am playing a forth game, Liberty this time. So I am very much appreciating the set up! I will write more, but my 2nd Tradition game, following Acken’s build orders, got me down to T311 which quite decent for me.

I had the same problem that others reported where I killed off the one civ (Indonesia) standing between me an CV — but because of complete kills — the game drags on. I ended gifting him a city so I could plant a diplomat and send him a Trade Route!

I never saw a single barb, so was that a game setting not mentioned in OP?

At the end (even after Satellites), I had like four CS asking me to find a Natural Wonder for them. I can only assume that was a bug related to the extra Sri Pada?

 

[beetle]

Game status: Culture Loss

@Rogerio_AA can you say more about how the AI (and which one) pulled this off? In my games, none of the AI seemed very much interested in winning.

 

[Rogerio_AA]

@Rogerio_AA can you say more about how the AI (and which one) pulled this off? In my games, none of the AI seemed very much interested in winning.

I believe that my investment predominantly in the military gave the opportunity to AI build the Cultural Victory, practically as a natural evolution of the game ...
I am playing again, trying to follow the choices of poxpower and Acken - I will probably lose by Cultural Victory, but I am ahead of some AIs in Science, and with a good cultural production.

 

[socralynnek]

Conquest loss on turn 303. (Spain)

Having never won a deity game, I think I did quite well through some stages of the game.
Tried sacred sites (got it), but with only 4 cities, that doesn't make enough of a difference, as I was not the tourism leader anyway (Siam was)

Didn't build much military but was friends with everyone. But then Catherine denounced me (on turn 240 or so) and then it was a cascade.
Catherine declared, Isabella soon after. After I was left with 1 city but making peace with both, Augustus attacked.
I was able to fight him off, but some turns later Isabella attacked again (out of the blue, we were friendly again) and then it was not taking much time

I think focussing on getting the Piety stuff for sacred sites was maybe hindering the necessary development to ne competitive...
(and I should learn obviously how and when to bribe some people to wage war to each to hinder their development)

As I am thinking about retrying this won for some win: Which VC would you go for on this map then? Diplomatic? (But Isabella was capturing CS early on) Domination?

 

[Rogerio_AA]

Conquest loss on turn 303. (Spain)
Didn't build much military but was friends with everyone. But then Catherine denounced me (...)

I believe that more than being friends of all, it is crucial to incite war between the AIs - just so they do not decide to attack us, but rather to fighting each other.

 

[poxpower]

I believe that more than being friends of all, it is crucial to incite war between the AIs - just so they do not decide to attack us, but rather to fighting each other.

Yes, when an AI is at war, he almost never attacks you. More than anything else in the game, this is what determines if an AI will war you. No matter how friendly you are, you aren't safe until they are fighting someone else and no matter how much they hate you, you're pretty safe if they're busy with someone else.

It also doesn't matter how strong they are, how strong you are or how the war is going. They can be fighting the weakest guy around and crushing him, they still won't move their 60 spare units to attack you, they will wait until they peace out.

Interestingly it doesn't seem to matter if they're already at war when it comes to bribing them to fight someone else, at least if you do it all in the same turn. Some AIs will take very little gold ot declare war on 4-5 other AIs.

But they won't attack you if they're busy lol. MAKES SENSE

 

[Acken]

Well it's even hardcoded that they won't engage in a war if they are already in one unless it is a coop war or a bribe which launches another script than the normal makewar function.

C++ Code that illustrates my point:

bWantToAttack = bWantToAttack && !bAtWarWithAtLeastOneMajor; // let's not get into another war right now

and this boolean is a prerequesite to another called bDeclareWar which needs to be true for the AI to declare war.

 

[poxpower]

Lol stupid AI.
Btw do you know what causes the AI to actually move units to attack one he's at war with? Typically I make them war each other and I can watch a dozen units just sitting around in their borders. Like right now I'm playing a game, Rome is at war with Assyria who's right next to him and I can see 6 trebuchets just sitting there near my border. He used them to attack me earlier and now he basically forgot they exist or maybe he can now only use them to attack me or something and since we're at peace he's like "CANNOT MOVE UNIT. CANNOT MOVE UNIT" lol

 

[beetle]

As I am thinking about retrying this won for some win: Which VC would you go for on this map then? Diplomatic? (But Isabella was capturing CS early on) Domination?

I think this is good map for people new to Deity games. Keeping Spain off you early is really the only trick I think. I played this from scratch four times, mostly because I wanted to experiment with Sacred Sites (which I really could not make work). I only tried for CV, but now that you mention it, it might be a good map for me to see if I can’t get a sub 300 Dom VC.

In three of my four games (the 1st, which I submitted, and then my two SS tries -- I was voting against myself in the WL vote to avoid DiploVC. Those games were also going long enough that sniping caps would have easy, and ended the game significantly faster than waiting for CV to trigger. I think it also easy turtle map for an SV, so much so that I won’t even bother with that. So that is the long answer.

TLDR: any VC you like!

 

[beetle]

Btw do you know what causes the AI to actually move units to attack one he's at war with?

Hopefully Acken can share the source code, but the basic problem seems to be that the AIs have no memory, no planning, and decide their actions at the start of the turn based only on what the AI sees at the very start of the turn. Melee units, that see a target at the start of their turn, will move and attack. Ranged units will never move not move and shoot, so they only attack on turns when a target is in range at the very beginning of their turn. This is behavior in particular is very easy to exploit. Somewhat ironically, the AIs do better with siege units, except they will roll right up to a city rather than ending one hex away. But the limited vision thing can really bollocks them up. The AIs seem to forget about cities that they do not have within active LOS. Try gifting Rome a horseman, preferably on a hill.