Turn Discussion

[slaze]

If they're gonna do that then it's over. Every goes-on seems like a growing collection of sticked forks.

But for all the fuss I/was caused, I know that I shouldn't be accussed of cheating and if they can honestly say the same then this game's still pure. It won't be until that clock ticks down that it's fake.

But I think there's more to it than that.

 

[plako]

lurker's comment: SANCTA can retire or let their 24-hour clock tick down every day if they don't want to play. Pausing to delay the game is poor sportsmanship.

Bad sportmanship! Yes, you got it right. I'm the prime example of bad sportmaship.

For the previous 6 months and even before that I've timely played every Saturn turn except the few ones that DMOC did and as you might know our position sucks (we're naturally only ones to blame). Now when I for the 1st time ask for a pause its bad spotmanship. I don't know should I cry or laugh.

Well I've played the turn now and I'll keep doing that to the bitter end, but this game isn't really worth the effort if SANCTA is letting the timer to tick 24h.

 

[cav scout]

Plako,

I appreciate how you and your team has stuck it out even though you've had a rough time of it. The nature of the MTDG means that you generally can't "kick it to AI" when you are in a hopeless situation or no longer having fun without destroying the game for the other players. But the heavy diplo aspect of the MTDG also allows the possibility for amazing comebacks, the little guy being the kingmaker etc. I think this game still has playability for all teams and Team Kaz is enjoying it.

 

[damnrunner]

MS and Saturn have not been in contention to win the game for a while. Kaz has a snowball's chance in hell. Sancta and Cav are front runners and right now Cav is winning.

So Sancta quits. What about MS, Saturn, and Kaz. Should we have quit ages age when we fell behind. The game can still be fun even when not winning or even losing. Personally, some of my most memorable MP games were ones in which I fought bitter rearguard actions and delayed the game's end for centuries.

 

[Ronnie1]

From MY PERSPECTIVE ONLY, the issue for Sancta, after REPEATED accusations, and AFTER the mods said there was no evidence, MORE ACCUSATIONS, most of our players became very disgruntled. Memphus was in a no win situation, if he continued and got lucky again, he would be accused of cheating again, and if he(or a different turn player) started having "normal" luck, then people could/would say "see", he was cheating.

I don't have the time to be a consistent turn player, and that is the real problem now. The core of our group(5-10 actively discussing), don't have the ability to continue.

 

[slaze]

So Memphus quit. He used accusations to get out of it but once your tide rolled back it's become a convenient excuse: you can't go on without him.

A bunch of the other teams have become set up much in the same way - dependent on one or a few key players. Sancta has the luxury of more discussion, but no one able to play the game.

There's been some bad diplomacy. Bad diplomacy in-game by sancta to find themselves in the position they're in and bad diplomacy out of game by me. Look, the way this was all set up was that we would absorb the information at different times. I heard that sulla was getting involved and it was only until then that I encouraged him to do so. And then it turns into this three week investigation and the mods are putting these threads up behind closed, sancta doors that we can't see. It was only natural for me to dissect the info I had been deprived of; I know almost nothing of the game code and I was curious to what could and couldn't be done.

I wanted to talk numbers but after time, I don't think those numbers were that bad. They could have simply been the swagger of a champion, or a bad beat.

But they're quitting. I'm still playing but I'm partly responsible for their choice.

 

[Renata]

Don't apologize, Slaze; none of this is your fault, not in any way.

 

[Ronnie1]

Again, MY PERSPECTIVE ONLY, Sancta is a democracy. We voted who would be our turn player(s), we voted who would be our diplomat(s), we voted who would be responsible for war planning, we voted who would be minister of the interior. Please don't blame Memphus, right now, we have no one to vote.

 

[plako]

13 minutes in the clock and I've paused the game again.

 

[damnrunner]

Democracy - I thought you were a Republic. I'll need to check them in game civics.

 

[cav scout]

Well i'm sure there must be a player somewhere here at civfanatics or on one of the other boards that would take over as the SANCTA turn player.

 

[Ronnie1]

Well it's not just turn player....diplomats, city planners, worker managers, etc....once upon a time there were well defined roles.

 

[cav scout]

Well it's not just turn player....diplomats, city planners, worker managers, etc....once upon a time there were well defined roles.

All those defined positions are great when you want to give everyone on the team a role and a chance to participate. But when you really get down to it it only takes one person who can play to keep the game running. HUSch comes to mind when I think of a dedicated player who keeps his team going. Perhaps you could retool your team organization to account for the current circumstances?

 

[IamJohn]

Speaking for myself alone, as a sanctan member I feel sincerely bad about this, and it's definitely not how I imagined my team going out. Plako and others were amazing people to play with, and made a game that wouldn't have had a chance of either of us winning potentially winnable due to their loyalty and gamesmanship and this isn't the way I or my team wanted to thank them.

Really in the end the problem came down for us that we relied too much on Memphus and Krill to play- when all is said and done they were the people actually playing the turn and for the most part planning it as well. Granted, there is a large number of us that were able to comment and critique what Memphus and Krill were doing, but day-to-day operations relied too much on them. I think when they were playing the game they did a great job, and I think what they've managed to accomplish in game speaks to that fact, but it also meant we relied too much on them to play, and we couldn't recover when they left. Whether Cav and Kaz like the finer points of what Sancta did I stand by what our team has done and accomplished.

On a personal note I'd like to be able to play for our team, but I just don't have the time (or civ abilities for that matter) to go it alone. I have plenty of admiration for people who have been doing so for quite awhile now, but I just don't have the time to be able to promise that kind of thing. However if we could get one or two other people who were sure they would be at least mostly available (ie they don't have to be able to play everything, just be there to post and play some of the time), then I would probably be willing to play.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I am curious about how people feel about calling this game and starting a new one?

Multiplayer games are different from playing the AI, where you can just quit or start-over when things are not going as planned. You can get mad at the AI for surprising you or getting good odds... whatever, but the AI does not get its feelings hurt no matter how many names you call it. Humans are different though... I agree with Husch... Angry accusations are just part of the game, when you are playing with human beings instead of Llamas or AIs.

If people feel like the game is no fun and they want to give up... just say so. We have all quit a game against AI before. You can't win em all. Sometimes you don't have time and have to quit. Sometimes you get a bad map. Sometimes you get outplayed, and Sometimes you just get beaten.

The whole point of the MTDG was to have alot of people on each team participating... At least that's what I thought. I was having the most fun when participation was at maximum. Its still fun now... we have a one heck of a wartime Marshall... but it was the most fun with max participation. Once there are only One or Two participants per team... well... I guess those 3 or 4 people could just go off and play a private game to decide who is the strongest

Anyway... Its been fun. Looking forward to whatever comes next.

 

[Krill]

First time back in this forum after months away...

There wouldn't be anything "wrong" with calling this game now, if that's what every team wants to do. I'd probably enjoy reading the other teams forums over the Christmas vacation, and we can all have a good chat about how the game turned out. If that's what leads to the greatest enjoyment, then so be it.

If OTOH, the other 4 teams want to play on, and SANCTA doesn't have the man power to continue, then recruiting an able bodied player would be the best cause of action, and pausing until you can do that is best. Both me and Memphus put a lot of time into this game, we're happy with what we achieved, but time moves on: we both have other more important matters in RL to attend to, and if the rest of the team is the same way, the only way for "SANCTA" to function is via the substitute method. The civ could be retired, but that probably would just mean that Cav wins straight up so isn't that good.

Ultimately I don't mind what happens, and it seems like nor does the rest of SANCTAs' remaining team members; we will get to read the reactions to when the Oracle fell at some point in the future no matter what. What matters most is what the current players opinions are.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Team Cav is pretty much down to slaze at this point; which kind of defeats the purpose of the MTDG.

 

[damnrunner]

Team Kaz is still fairly active, and I think most of us would like to press on.

 

[HUSch]

I won't be able to play until tomorrow. Can someone please pause it?

It's 3 days now.

 

[Whomp]

I'm afraid SANCTA has been gutted so you'll have to be patient while those who want to stay in the game reorganize.