Unitstats

[Duke van Frost]

Some new (changed) suggestion for stats of the imperial units:

Ancient

Settler: S0, M2, can found a new city - cost 100
Worker: S0, 0FS, M2, can improve tiles - cost 60
Work Boat: S0, M2, cannot enter ocean, can create fishing boats and whaling boats - cost 30
Unberogen Warrior: S2, 1FS, M1, +25% City Defense - cost 15
Unberogen Spearman: S4, 1FS, M1, +50% vs Cavalry (not ranged) - cost 30
Unberogen Archer: S3, 1FS, 1FSC, +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense - cost 25
Unberogen Axeman: S4, 0FS, M1, +25% vs Melee - cost 30
Unberogen Swordsman: S4, 1FS, M1, +20% City-Attack - cost 30
Unberogen Shaman: S3, 0FS, M1, can cast spells - cost 35
Ungol Horse-Archer: S4, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, +50% vs Artilery, no Defense Bonus, Withdraw 25% - cost 45
Catapult: S4, 1FS, M1, no Defense Bonus, Withdraw 25%, collateral 3 units 10%, City-Bombard 15% - cost 35
Pegasus: ???
Halfling Scout: S1, 1FS, M2, +100% vs Animals, only Defense, better results from Villages - cost 15
Imperial Galley: S2, M2, Cargo Space 2, cannot enter ocean - cost 50

Age of Magic

Citizen: ??? (what´s this supposed to be? a better Worker?)
Imperial Spearmen: S6, 1FS, M1, +50% vs Cavalry (not ranged) - cost 60
Imperial Bowmen: S5, 2FS, 1FSC, M1, +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense - cost 50
Imperial Swordsmen: S6, 1FS, M1, +20% City-Attack - cost 50
Kislev Winged Lancer: S7, 1FS, M3, no Defense-Bonus, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 25% - cost 75
Hedge-Wizard: S5, 0FS, M1, can cast Spells - cost 60
Griffon: ???
Halfling Explorer: S3, 1FS, M2, better Results from Villages - cost 35
Imperial War Galley: S3, M3, Cargo Space 1 (can carry scout, explorer, missionary, spy, or great people), can explore rival territory w/o triggering war - cost 60


Age of Discovery

Greatswords: S8, 1FS, M1, +20% City-Attack, +25% vs Monsters, +25% vs Melee - cost 100
Halberdiers: S8, 1FS, M1, +50% vs Cavalry (not rangted) - cost 90
Imperial Hunters: S6, 3FS, 1FSC, M1 +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense - cost 70
Imperial Crossbowmen (Marksman is the Champion Unit): S7, 2FS, M1, +50% City-Defense, +25% Hills Defense - cost 70
Reiksguard Knights: S9, 1FS, M2, no Defense-Bonus, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 25% - cost 110
Wizard: S6, 0FS, M1, can cast spells - cost 90
Great Cannon S7, 1FS, 1FSC, M1, collateral 4 Units 15%, City Bombard 20%, Withdraw 25% - cost 70
Mortar: ???
Imperial Greatship: S5, M4, Cargo Space 3 - cost 80
Imperial Wolfship: S8, M4, Can bombard city defenses -10% - cost 90


Mechanical Age:

Pistolier: S8, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, no Defense-Bonus, +50% vs Artillery, Withdraw 25% - cost 120
Hand-Gunner: S8, 2FS, M1, +25% City-Defense, +25% Hills-Defense, +20% City-Attack - cost 90
Hellblaster Volley Gun: S7, 2FS, 2FSC, M1, collateral 5 Units 20%, Withdraw 25% - cost 90
Ironfist: ???
Hell-Hammer: ???
Steam Tank: ???

The ships are like the vanilla ones (except that the Galley got +1 Str).

Ironfist and Hellhammer: are those two both combat ships? Or is one of them a transport, and if so, which one?

Ungol Horse Archer and the Pistolier are supposed to be "Ranged Cavalry" unit-types.

If somebody could suggest stats for the Monsters (Pegasus and Griffon) as well as the Steamtank, I´d be more than happy.

 

[DutchJunkie]

Maybe we can just rename the Armored Unit-Type from Vanilla cIV to "Ranged Cavalry", because we have no need for the "Armored" type.

that way we have "Cavalry" and "Ranged Cavalry" and apply the Bonuses of Spearmen etc. only for "Cavalry" units.

I see the Militia Spearman as the core-unit, not the swordman. I think its the standard unit of WH, but may be wrong.

I´ll update the list with the suggestions, maybe do some stats for the units I left out, and come up with some cost for them. I think it will take about 1/2 to 1 hour, then I´ll post again.

Actually fluffwise the halberdiers are the backbone of the Empire army. But core are swordsmen, spearmen, halberdiers, bowmen, handgunners etcetera; all sleightly trained militia. In this mod i would recommend swordsmen and swordsmen (edit .. spearmen ofcourese) are both core, one offensive and one defensive ..

like the cavalry idea btw .. nice solution ..

 

[Duke van Frost]

Maybe we can just rename the Armored Unit-Type from Vanilla cIV to "Ranged Cavalry", because we have no need for the "Armored" type.

Hm... just thought about that once more and maybe we´ll need the "armored" type for the Steamtank
I don´t know in which other Category it would fit in

 

[DutchJunkie]

My comments (positive comments! ):
- Unberogen Warrior: no city defense, they are the old hunter warriors!
- Pegasus is still useless as a unit imo .. it is a strong mount, not a monster!
- Rename imperial galley to something without imperial
- Halberdiers should get city defense (they are the true city defenders fluffwise)
- Steam tank S9, 2FS, 1FSC, M2, collateral 4 Units 15%, City Bombard 20%, Withdraw 50% - cost 150 (an improved driving cannon)
- Griffon Rider S10, 2FS, 1FSC, M3, +50% vs Artillery, +25% vs Melee, Withdraw 50%, flying - cost 200 (improved flying reiksguard)

 

[Duke van Frost]

The Griffon is also a mount, or not?

So we can just have a Griffon Rider and a Pegasus Rider IMO.

 

[DutchJunkie]

The Griffon is also amount, or not?

So we can just have a Griffon Rider and a Pegasus Rider IMO.

The Griffon is also a mount, but a very strong one. I suggest we use the Griffonrider as an über heavy knight, that can fly over abstacles as mountains without penalties. It's stronger than a horse, faster than a horse and the rider is also stronger and more experienced. Maybe there even should be a maximum on the production (max 4 per griffon-resource or something), as there should be for all super-monsters and super-units, but that's of later discussion.

I don't like the pegasus-rider idea, because that's the Bretonnian way. Imo the pegasus resource should give access to Wizard on Pegasus, which is a bit stronger in combat and moves 2 tiles without penalties. Pagasi are also rare (except for Bretonnia) ..

That's my two cents on these monsters

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I agree DJ. no pegasi for empire. only bretonia.

 

[seZereth]

Dukes and Dutch`s Ideas combined are a start! now we should do that for elves (high and wood) and for any other race you want.. so we can make a first version with a basic tech tree soon and then go down to the advanced things which make this mod more unique...

 

[DutchJunkie]

I agree DJ. no pegasi for empire. only bretonia.

.. only for the improved-wizard? .. just like Balthasar
Reminds me of unicorns for bretonnia btw .. also a wizard-mount .. just like Morgiana le Fay Enchantress

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

mmm yes that would be very cool. and take it further by letting dark elf sorceresses ride hellmounds, woodelf spell singers ride unicorns, High elf mages also pegasi, Khemri...Sphinx constructs... and... im out of ideas...

 

[Olleus]

I propose to change the units around to something like this:

ancient: core units

magic: Special units accompanying ancient units.

discovery: core units replqcing ancient units and still being used with magic units.

mechanical: Replaces magic units and is used with discovery units.

That way, every unit gets 2 ages during which it can be used.


Also, does anyone remember how artillery worked in defence in civ3? It got a chance to attack the enemy before another units took over the fight. I say that we recreate this system for civ, but with archers. This would reflect their use as a support unit in WH that is (generaly) incapable of fighting on its own. Also it would free them up from their role as a city defence unit and allow over units to take over that role (halberdiers).

 

[Ploeperpengel]

@Olleus
I wouldn't like to change the order of units again. I think it's quite nicely set up now.
I support the idea with the archer defensive bombardment though.

@Duke
I think the listis a good start now let's go for playtesting this and see how it works.

the citzen is a worker supposed to be ugradeable to miliia in case enemyunits are near. Read about it in the pythonthread(future stuff)

the steamtank should be really strong for one reason: The empire doesn't get a large monster but i.e three steamtanks instead. So what values they should have we should see after we decided what stat a dragon should have. 1 dragon and three steamtanks should be balanced in a way.
I think we need a mechanized unitcombat btw. Just think about the dwarfs!

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I like the idea about Archers defensive bombardment very much, is it possible?

 

[Olleus]

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it.
It will require a bit of SDK modding but the hardest part will be to show the archer attacking before retreating and letting the standard unit fight. If with this we give archers collateral damage of 2-3 units, then it will make them a very special unit of which there is no equivalent in vanilla civ (apart maybe from the cho-ko-nu).


What should artillery do?

I don't think that the suicide system would reflect very well in civ. We could either go drastic and give them ranged combat, or give them a 90% withdrawal chance and increased cost (which I have done for my personal mod and it works very well).

 

[Duke van Frost]

I´d like to go drastic there and give them ranged combat. I always liked the idea to have this old civ3 thing back.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

yes, ranged bombardment! lets get drastic!

 

[woodelf]

Agreed. Ranged combat is the way to go. Maybe a couple suicide units? Goblins or another psycho unit could throw themselves fully into an attack. Maybe like the Wight from Myth:TFL? It blows itself up causing collateral damage?

 

[seZereth]

that archer and artillery idea is very good, i really like it this way!!! go for it! i am looking forward to creating some special effects for spells, like explosions and stuff like that

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

yay! explosions! *ehem* sorry, explosions are exciting

 

[DutchJunkie]

Agreed. Ranged combat is the way to go. Maybe a couple suicide units? Goblins or another psycho unit could throw themselves fully into an attack. Maybe like the Wight from Myth:TFL? It blows itself up causing collateral damage?

Sounds like a night goblin fanatic to me .. goblin doomdivers are good in suicide attacks too