Useless City Improvements

[Sim_One]

I find that solar plants, recycling centers and coastal fortresses to be rather useless. Solar plants are useless because it comes so late in the game, it costs twice the amount to build than a coal plant and it produces the same effects. Recycling centers are nice but they require an extra dead-end technology to research. And coastal fortresses are useless for reasons that the AI doesn't emphasize on navy very much.

 

[warpstorm]

I actually find all of the ones you listed to be valuable under certain circumstances. Solar Plants have a big difference over Coal Plants, they don't pollute. Recycling Centers lower your pollution massively and give you a bonus when selling off stuff. The dead end tech that you are complaining about the AI will pay a fortune for. I've had maps and games where the AI most definitely built and used navies. Of course, if you play Pangaeas, it'll be a lot less useful. And is banks in there as a joke? Every productive city will have this in my empire. I will usually build walls in those cities that I can't get over pop 6.

 

[TheNiceOne]

I woted walls and coastal fortresses, because I almost never build any of them, although I could see how they can be useful.

I'm currently playing on monarch, but I guess I should try emperor soon, because I simply don't need walls or costal fortresses, as I'm (almost) never on defense.

 

[col]

Only time I build walls is when I'm about to get hit by a barbarian SoD. Big difference from Civ2. Solar Plants are unnecessary if you get Hoover and come too late. Nuclear plants are round the corner if you need a production boost late in the game.

Never built a coastal fortress other than to see what they do.
Recycling plants arent needed. My 100s of workers have to do something late on.

Banks - an essential.

 

[warpstorm]

A lot of this will change when PTW comes out, also. The Vikings will force people to build navies in the Middle Ages for their own protection. In addition, if you play agianst humans you will not always be on the offensive.

 

[Zachriel]

I admit it. I'm a perfectionist player, and I often build City Walls even when I don't need them. However, they are useful in Tundra and Desert Towns that will never exceed pop 6. I wish Walls were a little more useful to justify the couple of turns it takes to build them.

Banks and Recycling Centers are essential.
Coastal Fortresses work as a deterrent -- sometimes.
Solar Plants are very useful if you don't get Hoover Dam.

 

[Shabbaman]

I miss SAM batteries in the list. They have their uses as deterrent, but since bombers have a short range and the frontline is always moving, I prefer the mobility of fighters as air defence. They're cheaper too. But then again, who needs air defence anyway.

Oh yeah, I never build coal plants or nuclear plants. As long as I've got the hoover dam of course...

 

[benjdm]

The good thing about coastal fortresses though is they cost 0 upkeep.

 

[YoungEagle]

I've built coastal fortresses when I've been behind in the game, but they are never enough help. You'll still need a navy to keep from getting pounded.

 

[cameramano]

Sam batteries are needed (at least 5) for "Star Wars." Unless the AI is going nuts with bombardment... what is the point o coastal defenses? That is what Artillery is for.

Solar and Recycling lower pollution and decrease global warming... some good there.

Banks? Why are banks on the list? Seriously... is there a catch I don't know about?

 

[SirJethro]

BANKS? Who thinks banks are useless?? Banks are great!

Anyway, one thing people need to keep in mind in this poll is the change in value with Multiplayer. Most significantly I think Walls and Coastal Fortresses will become more useful because of the unpredictable and agressive nature of some human opponents.

 

[Evincar]

Coastal Fortress: I've NEVER seen what it does, but I build them just because they have no upkeep.

Walls: Ever wondered why small cities are SO easy to take? walls prevent that, and are great againts barbarian invasions.

Solar Plants: Useless if you have Hoover, useless anyway, may as well build a Nuke plant.

Recycling centers: Nice to have, specially if you have Manufacturing plants. A must in your IW city!!

Banks Oh man!! stop taking drugs

 

[Aeneas of Troy]

Walls are GREAT! They can do wonders for small isolated cities deep into enemy territory with only a one pikeman defending against swarms of swordsmen. As for coastal fortresses... I don't use them.

 

[PlowKing]

Coastal fortress is easily the most useless followed closely by walls.

I don't think I have ever seen the AI attempt to bombard one of my coastal cities. It always bombards the improvements around the city instead. Even though it has no upkeep, the the production spent building it is better spent on another military unit.

As for walls, the only scenario where they are usefull is when you have a city without an aquaduct that is growing slowly and is constantly under attack by one of the other civs. Otherwise your production is better spent on another garrison unit or an aquaduct.


How could banks even be on the list? They increase your gold output, and are required to build the best small wonder in the game: Wall Street (not including Iron works, which is super-hard to build)


I think the best improvement is the marketplace: It increases gold output and makes luxuries way more effective.

 

[billindenver]

I never used to build walls, until my last few games. Unlike Civ I, where walls were darned near as expensive as factories, they are cheap in Civ III. I don't build them in all cities, but if I get into a war with a neighbor early, or barbs are present, I'll immediately rush walls if possible. A 50% defensive bonus means a spearman goes from 70% chance of losing to a knight to a 50% chance. They are an absolute must if you get caught in an early war against a stronger AI.

I build recycling centers and solar plants if I get to that point in the game, but that's rare. Banks, obviously, everyone builds.

The most worthless thing to me is coastal fortresses. They are supposed to take a shot at anything that gets in range, but I've never seen it happen. I don't know if the AI just avoids them, or if the stupid things don't work.

As for coal plants, I definitely build them, especially in the town I want Hoover in. It helps speed up dam production significantly, and I just sell them if and when I get Hoover.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I voted Recycling Plant, 'cos I really can't feel they're worth researching an extra tech for, and by the Modern Times I usually has dozens or hundreds of slave Workers that can clean up pollution for free.

Coastal Fortress is pretty pointless too. I usually drive off annoying AI ships with spare Arty; when CM come available, I like to first bombard 'em down to 1HP and then send a CM. Considering that a BB costs 200 shields and a CM 60, this's a good trade.

I usually build walls in strategic cities during the Ancient Era. Cheap, and saving a single city at this stage can have a huge affect at the rest of the game.

Solar Plants are OK; I have to research the tech anyway, and denting pollution a bit doesn't hurt. Not something I build alot, tho'.

Let's shut up about Banks, shall we?

And then there's the things I almost never can build, 'cos the game will've ended before they can be researched: SAM Batteries, Offshore Platforms and Manufacturing Plant.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

I don't find any improvement on the list to be useless. About the only improvement that I don't find a use for is offshore platforms, as The Last Conformist noted.

 

[BillChin]

On the list Coastal Fortresses are the most useless. Civ III naval combat in general is a farce, so the tiny advantage from a CF is even more of a joke. The Apolyton University mod requires a CF to make veteran ships (instead of harbors). I like this change.

Off the list, offshore platforms, manufacturing plants, are two things I have never built. They come SOOOOO late in the game and provide little benefit.

In multiplayer, I see Walls as playing a key role in many games. In single player they can help a great deal vs. barbs and occasionally vs. the AI.
- Bill

 

[Sim_One]

Alright guys the reason why I put banks on that list was because I was only half-awake when I posted this thread during 5am in the morning. I was going over which items to put on the list and somehow SAM Batteries went out of my head and I just put banks because I got confused. Batteries, banks, you know... So pretend SAM is an item in the poll.

Anyhow, I also want to know your opinions on hospitals and granaries.

For those of you who support solar plant, lemme ask you a question...why would you build them over coal plants if you built the recycling centers?

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by Sim_One
For those of you who support solar plant, lemme ask you a question...why would you build them over coal plants if you built the recycling centers?

Because recycling centers do not eliminate 100% of the pollution. With a factory, coal plant, and manufacturing plant all in one large city, quite a bit of pollution can be produced even with a recycling center.