Using Colonization Assets in Civ4 mod

ripple01

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Has there been any official word from Firaxis if this is allowed or not? I know that some mods have used assets from other Firaxis games (Pirates! and Railroads come to mind) but I didn't know if this is different because Colonization is newer than Civ4.

Cheers,
ripple01
 
Well, I think it'd be okay, I mean the game's title starts with the title 'Civilization 4'. This is formally a Civlization 4 expansion pack, it's just a lot different from what you'd expect from the typical expansion.
 
No it's not a Civ4 expansion pack. It's a stand-alone game.
 
I know for fact that in Civ3 days, it was not allowed to take Guerrilla unit model from 1st expansion to make a mod for regular Civ3 with same unit.

I guess same would apply here.
Exempt, if explicitly said otherwise.
 
Wow, this topic comes up every time a new game comes out.

If it doesn't say you can't do it in the ESRA, they haven't posted anywhere that they are against it, or some official Firaxian doesn't post their disapproval in this or any of the other dozens of threads on this topic.. then you can do it.

Stuff has been taken from Pirates! and Railroads! so I don't see why this game would be any different. If you own legit copies of both games then you can do what you want with their contents as long as you don't make money off of it.

If I'm wrong then, please, a Firaxian say so.
 
Personally, I don't think they care as long as you own a Firaxis game. :)
 
Stuff has been taken from Pirates! and Railroads! so I don't see why this game would be any different. If you own legit copies of both games then you can do what you want with their contents as long as you don't make money off of it.

Yes, but in case of making Civ4 mod with Colonization assets, in order to make it work you would need to put original Colonization assets as part of download for Civ4 mod.

I don't think it's allowed (sharing original game files, even if just assets).
 
In all honesty, people use all media from other Firaxis games that we probably shouldn't (Original Railroads assets are in a lot of mods). Not to mention the amount of mods that use copyrighted non-Firaxis songs somewhere:sad:

I'm holding off on doing it for the time being, but I think it's eventually going to be okay. (I hope so or I won't be able to release the next version of my mod which I've already started putting Col leaderheads into)

Why? Well, even if you use the assets I highly doubt you could make a colonization mod for civ 4 (unlike in the example given with civ 3 and its expansion pack.... it's relatively easier to make a base game the same as an expansion pack if you export everything).

Additionally, it is labeled under the Civ 4 brand of games and I remember in some podcast someone mentioning able to use textures from Col in Civ 4. (Someone will have to look that up).
 
I would suggest that it's fine as long as you don't entirely remake Colonization, but make your own mod. If you remade Colonization in Civ4 (which would be hella hard but not impossible I suspect) they would probably be annoyed.
 
I would just like to put the Bolivar leaderhead in my Venezuela Civ, or San Martín in my Argentine civ.
 
I want that gorgeous water on my HUGE civ4 map!!!! I run Nargulok's earth map with 18 BTS civs on Vista 64 with 4GB RAM and I swear its the Civ experience I've always wanted. But, lemme have that beautiful Civ4Col water effect in Civ 4!!! :lol:
 
Yes, but in case of making Civ4 mod with Colonization assets, in order to make it work you would need to put original Colonization assets as part of download for Civ4 mod.
And does the exact same thing not apply to Pirates! and Railroads! somehow?

It sounds as though Firaxis realises that this doesn't actually hurt them. Realistically nobody buys computer games for spare parts, and disallowing a mod for whatever reason doesn't get more games sold. If someone wants a part of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) in their mod and Firaxis says no, they'll either use original material or they'll abandon the mod. They won't take the effort to write a routine that searches for a legal version of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) and extracts the relevant part. I don't know what Firaxis's position is, but if it were me I wouldn't care.
 
And does the exact same thing not apply to Pirates! and Railroads! somehow?

It sounds as though Firaxis realises that this doesn't actually hurt them. Realistically nobody buys computer games for spare parts, and disallowing a mod for whatever reason doesn't get more games sold. If someone wants a part of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) in their mod and Firaxis says no, they'll either use original material or they'll abandon the mod. They won't take the effort to write a routine that searches for a legal version of Colonization (or Pirates!, or Railroads! or whatever) and extracts the relevant part. I don't know what Firaxis's position is, but if it were me I wouldn't care.


Good points, Dyhad. I agree with everything you've said here and, as someone above pointed out, if one is using a few elements from another game and not trying to copy the whole game, I think it should be OK.

Cheers,
ripple01
 
The difference is that these assets will be in exactly same form as in original game they came from.

Could you explain how that makes a difference, in a legal sense? Copyrighted material is copyrighted material regardless of what form you do or don't convert it to. For example, I may change a Railroads! model from Railroads NIF format to Civ4 NIF format, but it is still the same model and looked at as the same object in a legal sense.

The law doesn't work the way it sounds good or even logical. Its all about what you gained (ie do or don't make money on) and if anything was deprived of the Rights Owner (ie they lost money or were prevented from making money).

Again, unless you can point to some where that an official Firaxian said any part of Civ4, Warlords, Beyond the Sword, Colonization 2, Pirates!, or Railroads! is off limits to cross game modding or modding in general, then you can assume you are completly within your rights to do as you wish with any of the legal products you own.
 
Another expansion another copyright conversation, personally I have to agree with Jeckel

Again, unless you can point to some where that an official Firaxian said any part of Civ4, Warlords, Beyond the Sword, Colonization 2, Pirates!, or Railroads! is off limits to cross game modding or modding in general, then you can assume you are completly within your rights to do as you wish with any of the legal products you own.

But saying that... no-one that has spoken yet, has any 'real' authority one way or the other to say yes or no. Until you hear from one of them I would say do what your going to do without fear, and if someone with that authority says hey.. wait a min.. Then it would be a good time to stop cause it would be then when your about to cross that line.


Edit: This reminds me though, I heard that there might be problums using Civ 4 graphics in Colonization because of a new shader.. Is this true on all things or specific things? And if so is there a converter or anything like that, that might help moving them?
 
Again, unless you can point to some where that an official Firaxian said any part of Civ4, Warlords, Beyond the Sword, Colonization 2, Pirates!, or Railroads! is off limits to cross game modding or modding in general, then you can assume you are completly within your rights to do as you wish with any of the legal products you own.

Sadly for you, the law doesn't work that way. You don't have to gain anything to be infringing of copyright, nor does the copyright owner have to be losing anything tangible. You could copy some guy's painting, and pay New Yorker Magazine $100,000 to print an ad with it solely advertising that people should buy the painting, and you'd still be infringing upon his copyright.

That said, as I said earlier, I don't think Firaxis is going to object in this case. There's no reason for them to, and they have not objected in the past, as long as you don't entirely remake Col (and thus give people a reason not to buy it).
 
After doing a little looking, I ran into this

Amendments to the 1976 Copyright Act

No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997

With the passage of the so-called No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), US copyright law was changed to allow for the civil and criminal prosecution of persons allegedly engaged in copying of copyrighted works without permission that did not result in personal financial gain; historically, the criminal copyright law required infringement to be for financial gain. Among other things, the NET Act altered the definition of financial gain to include bartering and trading. In addition, under this US law, members of software piracy groups could also be prosecuted for participation in a criminal enterprise.

This is not related to whether you can or can't copy assets (As I still have the same opinion on that) Just to Jeckel/Snoopys discussion on the profit part of the copyright law.
 
The reason why they have the name "Civilization 4" after Colonization is because it's using the Civ 4 engine to remake the colonization game on the Civ 4 engine.
 
As to the NET Act mentioned by Melinko.

The text in the following spoiler is cut/pasted from the Department of Justice's website.

Spoiler :
On Tuesday, December 16, 1997, the President signed into law H.R. 2265, the "No Electronic Theft (NET)" Act. The Act was passed unanimously by both houses of Congress (143 Cong. Rec. S12689 and 143 Cong. Rec. H9883-01).

The NET Act strengthens the copyright and trademark laws, providing enhanced protection in the digital age in a careful and balanced manner. The criminal copyright and trademark provisions in titles 17 and 18 of the U.S. Code are amended to:

* Permit the Department to prosecute individuals under misdemeanor or felony provisions^(1) <#N_1_> in cases involving large-scale illegal reproduction or distribution of copyrighted works where the infringers act willfully but without a discernible profit motive, bridging the gap in statutory protection discussed in _U.S. v. LaMacchia_, 871 F. Supp. 535 (D. Mass. 1994);

* Exempt from criminal prosecution reproduction or distribution that is not done "willfully" or that constitutes small-scale non-commercial copying (copyrighted works with a total retail value of less than $1,000);

* Clarify that "willful" infringement must consist of evidence of more than the mere intentional reproduction or distribution of copyrighted works;

* Define "financial gain" in the Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. 101 et seq.) to include the "receipt, or expectation of receipt, of anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works," to ensure that persons who illegally traffic in copyrighted works by using barter rather than cash are covered by the statute;

* Clarify that "reproduction or distribution" includes by electronic as well as tangible means;

* Extend the statute of limitations from three to five years, making the criminal copyright statute consistent with most other criminal statutes;

* Establish a recidivist provision which raises penalties for second or subsequent felony copyright offenses;

* Recognize victims' rights by allowing parties who own rights in the pirated copyrighted works or in trademarks on counterfeit goods to provide a victim impact statement to the sentencing court; and

* Enhance the deterrent power of the copyright criminal laws by directing the Sentencing Commission to amend the Sentencing Guideline for copyright and trademark infringement to allow courts to consider the quantity of infringing goods and the retail value of the good infringed upon, rather than the often lower value of the infringing good, when sentencing defendants. Copies of the trademark and copyright provisions as amended by the NET Act are attached. These are 17 U.S.C. §§ 101, 506, and 507 and 18 U.S.C. §§ 2319, 2319A, and 2320. New language appears in bold typeface. The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS), Criminal Division, is preparing a supplement to the manual "Federal Prosecution of Violations of Intellectual Property Rights - Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets" which will explain and incorporate the changes effected by the NET Act. The supplement will be reproduced and distributed to recipients of the manual and will be posted on our website (www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *1.* The reproduction or distribution of 10 or more copies of 1 or more copyrighted works which have a total retail value of $2,500 or more constitutes a felony, with a maximum sentence of three years imprisonment and a fine of $250,000. The reproduction or distribution of 1 or more copies of 1 or more copyrighted works which have a total retail value of more than $1,000 constitutes a misdemeanor, with a one-year maximum sentence and a fine of up to $100,000. Return to CCIPS page


For those that don't speak legaleze, that admendment to the copyright laws did several things.

First, it clarified that coping of electronic things was the same as coping physical objects.

Second, it clarified "financial gain" to mean receiving or expectation of receiving anything of value. Basicly this was to cover those that traded stolen songs or movies for other stolen songs or movies.

Third, and most important to us, that admendment made some exemptions to copyright infringment prosecution. If the infringment was not "willful" or did not total atleast $1,000 in value, then you can not be prosecuted.

Fourth, it clarified that for infringment to be considered "willful" there must be more evidence then just the coping/distributing of copyrighted material.


Bottom line, the prosecution of copyright infringment still total revolves around the "willful" intent to infringe on those rights.

The use of copyrighted material in a mod released with the intent to provide enjoyment of a game does not constitute "willful infringement". Don't ask for anything in return for making your mods and you can include any copyrighted material you want, but the moment you ask for money, beer, postcards, or anything else of value in return you will fall squarly under the bad area of the law.

EDIT: For those that don't like to google things, http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime.
 
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