v94 Israel

[Pawlak]

I just started recently, will keep updating this thread as I go forward.

So far it plays nicely, in my v92 game they felt absolutely OP, but that was most likely issue with me not having all dlcs and thus game having a lot of issues. In this game I got to Huns and I am not dominating as I as previously.

One thing that is not related to Israel, but came to my mind in previous game already, is there a way to make Arabs start with Islam in civ5? Egypt could easily get Kemetism which could take spot of Tengrism which I don't think have much chance of being research any way, and then Arabs with Islam would enter middle east full of other religons as opposed to it being already Islamic since ancient times due to Egypt being religious civ and founding religion every time.
Another issue with religion is Rome being destroyed by Huns typically wipes out holy city for catholicism and kinda makes this religion non-existant, in my v92 game this made converting whole Europe super easy.

Anyway, since this is my first report I will add that I love how this mod is shaping up to be, I am still irritared by some aspects of vanilla civ5 underneath, but then again I did not like vanilla civ4 either, it's the RFC and numerous modmods that made this game fun for me for all this years (I still play civ4 RFC DoC quite regularly). I hope this mod can do the same for civ5 though there are some serious challanges to overcome, like that carpet of doom battle mechanics...

 

[PiR]

Anyway, since this is my first report I will add that I love how this mod is shaping up to be, I am still irritared by some aspects of vanilla civ5 underneath, but then again I did not like vanilla civ4 either, it's the RFC and numerous modmods that made this game fun for me for all this years (I still play civ4 RFC DoC quite regularly). I hope this mod can do the same for civ5 though there are some serious challanges to overcome, like that carpet of doom battle mechanics...

For me it's more the "tall" instead of "wide" aspect of Civ V that is frustrating. Expanding is always punished so hard.

 

[Pawlak]

For me it's more the "tall" instead of "wide" aspect of Civ V that is frustrating. Expanding is always punished so hard.

Well I should check out 'wider' civ next then. I am partial to 'tall' play though, so I might not mind it. I did already experience somewhat of a carpet of doom in my v92 play where I gathered forces to attack Turkey and army streached from Persia to Mediterranean Sea and it was still too crowded. It was bugged out game though (started it with not all dlcs), so half civs did not spawn and ones that did grown immensely. This v94 run already has very different feel to it.

 

[Rhye]

i am interested in hearing what else you think it's broken of vanilla civ5

 

[Pawlak]

i am interested in hearing what else you think it's broken of vanilla civ5

I wish I could help, but I played maybe 5-6 games soon after it got published and dropped it. I honestly don't enjoy vanilla civ, last Sid Meier game I enjoyed unmodded was Alpha Centauri.

If I remember correctly you couldn't raze a lot of type of cities, like city states etc, and that was irritating but not broken. Also I consider policies as worse solution to civics, but that's more like a preference. New religion mechanic on the other hand I believe is big improvement as far as vanilla game goes but provides significant challenge for uchronia type of gameplay.

I guess major issue I have is with resources, they just don't feel all that significant (minor bonus for city, for civ also don't feel so important) as compared to civ4. This though might be just cos I play Israel now, what I have seen they do matter more for wide play. I will keep this request in mind and share more as I progress into modern era. I remember I had a lot both good and bad to say about ideologies when I played vanilla but that was too long time ago for me to remember.

What I absolutely love though, as compared to civ4 as basis for RFC is the city states, this alone makes a huge improvement in the uchronia experience.

 

[PiR]

Policies are like wonders in the way that they give you permanent bonus but the first policies are very easy to obtain.

I'd say rushing anything by buying it with gold is kinda broken, ok it's a trade-off because you save that money in case something happens but you can instantly do whatever you want with that money? that's not very civ to me

In the context of RFC, gaining 1 happiness for each world wonder discovered, as you can know in advance where there are, seems a bit cheesy to me. However sources of happiness are too rare and the incentive to explore is good in a 4X game.

 

[Pawlak]

Policies are like wonders in the way that they give you permanent bonus but the first policies are very easy to obtain.

I'd say rushing anything by buying it with gold is kinda broken, ok it's a trade-off because you save that money in case something happens but you can instantly do whatever you want with that money? that's not very civ to me

In the context of RFC, gaining 1 happiness for each world wonder discovered, as you can know in advance where there are, seems a bit cheesy to me. However sources of happiness are too rare and the incentive to explore is good in a 4X game.

Yeah, with policies vs civics aspect I miss from civ4 is that either or choice, you can only run one civic and RFC given you stability change from different combinations etc, this made interesting gameplay variety, with policies it's a bit like what do you want first, and you never switch out of it you just pick another and another.

As far as buying with gold, I will have to play more to tell more, for now all I can say, that I liked in civ4 RFC that you had to have specific civics to be able to buy stuff for gold, so you had this option only in some builds.

As far as world wanders and happiness, again gonna have to play more to know more, but you are right playing on world map you always know where to go, so it kinda seems redundant

 

[Rhye]

I totally agree. Civ4 civics and Civ6 governments are far better than those trees. But replacingg them would be a huge work. I have something in mind though, some shortcut. I need some help from someone who can edit the graphical interface. I'll ask Jiska first.

 

[Pawlak]

Europe got totally swamped out by Vikings and neither France nor Spain spawned as supposed to.

 

[Pawlak]

Genghis Khan begged for peace despite not fighting with me at all which was funny but it did not matter much.

 

[Pawlak]

Greece took Athens while spawning despite me being STABLE, is it as supposed to be or an issue?

 

[Pawlak]

And then there was Iron bug, where maybe I had too much of it from city states so it disappeared?

OK, and now to general conclusion - Israel seems like very powerful civ, I was ahead of tech from around 1700s and in 20th century I was so ahead no one had any tech I did not have already. Kibbutz + trading posts make desert around you into prime real estate and costal Jerusalem can easily go up to 40 pops.

As for world - it was quite empty tbh, Middle East, especially up untill around 1500s felt great, it was packed with civs and there was stuff happening, so it was fun, but with no Spain and France in Europe or Ethiopia or Mali in Africa and with very weak India and China rest of the world felt very empty.

Oh and there was also issue with ideologies - is there a way to get to this screen other way then by popups?

 

[Pawlak]

In general I would say that playing tall and with city states seems very powerful.
I am now trying out Germany and try to play wide and I already see why PiR complained about this playstyle viability in current state of mod, but I will write more about it in new report.

Since this is my first report - is there anything else I should add or you would like to know?

 

[PiR]

View attachment 676697
Greece took Athens while spawning despite me being STABLE, is it as supposed to be or an issue?

I don't understand. You were Israël? You founded Athens with a settler and Greece took it from you? I thought Israël could not have settlers.

When a new civ spawns, it takes all units and cities in the tiles of its spawning area.

Or do you mean that you had conquered Athens and in 1892 Greece respawned (not the original spawn but an industrial respawn)?

 

[PiR]

And then there was Iron bug, where maybe I had too much of it from city states so it disappeared?

an int overflow? I like the theory!

 

[Pawlak]

I don't understand. You were Israël? You founded Athens with a settler and Greece took it from you? I thought Israël could not have settlers.

When a new civ spawns, it takes all units and cities in the tiles of its spawning area.

Or do you mean that you had conquered Athens and in 1892 Greece respawned (not the original spawn but an industrial respawn)?

Oh I didn't know respawn was scripted, but it makes more sense now I guess. Yeah I took Athens when they spitted off from 'collapsing' Turkey as barbarians. I thought Greece respawned due to Turkey low stability, and that's why I was surprised I lost Athens despite being stable.

As for the 'iron overflow' it lasted one or two tours and later I again had a bunch.

 

[PiR]

i am interested in hearing what else you think it's broken of vanilla civ5

This:
If a road is within a city's borders, the owner of the city pays for the maintenance of the road, regardless of which player built it. This allows for a potent exploit: sign an open borders treaty with an opponent, then build roads on every hex possible within his or her cultural borders. This will severely weaken your opponent's economy, since they will lose 1 [IMG alt="Gold"]https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/c/c9/20xGold5.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415022748[/IMG] Gold per turn per road hex. Running out of [IMG alt="Gold"]https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/civilization/images/c/c9/20xGold5.png/revision/latest?cb=20120415022748[/IMG] Gold will slow your opponent's scientific progress and force military units to disband, making it difficult for the opponent to discover new technologies and maintain a defensive army without strengthening his or her economy first. Moreover, building roads will not cause diplomatic incidents with AI leaders, who may even propose to extend the open borders treaty.

 

[Rhye]

wow. What's the easiest fix then? Maintenance 0?

 

[PiR]

I don't know if it needs to be fixed, as it is clearly an exploit you have to refrain from using as a player, but when I found it I thought it was worth mentioning.
Probably yes Maintenance 0 would be the easiest fix, but then there is no downside for building roads, so we could spam roads as we did in Civ IV. Although it's just not what Civ V intended, it's totally fine for me to be able to spam roads, specially with 1 UPT on a map that has a lot of narrow passages.

 

[Mezzy]

Would it be possible to set road maintenance to 0, but keep it on railroads? It would still be possible to exploit in the end game, but much less likely?