Venezuela/Guyana

Zardnaar

Zardnaar

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Sobold Maduro has been firing his mouth off claiming parts of Gutana. It looks to be around two thirds of Guyanas territory.

The dubious claim is based on Colonial administration borders. And apparently it's been a bigger issue evince oil and rare earths were discovered early 2000's.

Guyana speaks totally different language some form of English apparently very sparsely populated. Bigger than it looks on the map around 2/rds tge size of UK/NZ/Italy Gove or take with 1/5th the population of NZ. Outnumber 28-1 depending on Venezuela's exact population (millions have fled).

Unlike Russias bull crap "referendums" they didn't bother asking the Guyana just themselves. I'm sure it's got nothing to do with all thise resources they've found. Tots not at all.

So of the balloon goes up odds of foreign intervention eg USA or Brazil or collective shrug.
 
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95% of Venezuelans approved taking over their neighbor.


Venezuelans voted by a wide margin Sunday to approve the takeover of an oil-rich region in neighboring Guyana – the latest escalation in a long-running territorial dispute between the two countries, fueled by the recent discovery of vast offshore energy resources.

The area in question, the densely forested Essequibo region, amounts to about two-thirds of Guyana’s national territory and is roughly the size of Florida.
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The new state will be called Guayana Esequiba.


Venezuela’s president ordered the creation of a new state called “Guayana Esequiba” on Tuesday, following a controversial Sunday referendum which saw Venezuelan voters approving the annexation of land from neighboring Guyana.
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Kaitzilla said:
95% of Venezuelans approved taking over their neighbor.




The new state will be called Guayana Esequiba.

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They seemed to forget asking Guyana.

Still until troops cross the border it's a bit of populism theatrics.
 
Guyana is in the commonwealth, right? The British will be involved.
 
Guyana should have thought about this before taking that land in the first place, OR this is happening because of Israel and Russia, OR this will hurt Biden’s chances in the upcoming election. Pick whichever sentiment you like the most.
 
KMRblue1027 said:
Yeah they're a commonwealth member so the UK would be obligated to aid still it's all grandstanding as the US would certainly be involved too.
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I'm sure the response of the United Kingdom will be as vigorous in the defense of Her Majesty's Realms* as when the US Marine Corp decided to take a vacation in Grenada.

*I know what I wrote. I'll never recognize King Chuck!
 
Crezth said:
Guyana should have thought about this before taking that land in the first place, OR this is happening because of Israel and Russia, OR this will hurt Biden’s chances in the upcoming election. Pick whichever sentiment you like the most.
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Defending the indefensible again?
 
Maduro is smart to claim that only 95% of Venezuelans support that potential move. He's realized that the traditional dictator's poll numbers of 98-99% aren't believable.

Certainly seems like another "overseas saber rattling to drum up domestic support". But in addition to potential U.S. (Monroe Doctrine, though I'm not sure if that applies within South America?) and U.K. (Commonwealth) commitments, I can't imagine Venezuela's South American neighbors such as Brazil would be too thrilled if Venezuela decided to start annexing its neighbors. They've been absorbing hundreds of thousands of Venezuelan refugees over the past decade, due not only to political persecution but also to abject poverty due to mismanagement of the state, and they won't want to have that expanded to a larger area. Guyana may have high income inequality, but it's not a failed state like Venezuela.

And indeed, while I always have to check which Guiana/Guyana is which, this is the one formerly known as British Guiana, a British colony. Then Suriname (Dutch Guyana) is in the middle, and French Guiana (which is still part of France) is the easternmost. Has to be a scary situation, they have fewer people than the city I grew up in. Hopefully nothing much comes of this.
 
I read something now cannot find it that Brazil is already basically doing prepwork to contain a potential invasion. With deploying forces to the border region and rallying neighbors so this may not even require much aid outside of South America itself. Brazil alone likely could crush the invasion forces but using an international coalition likely looks better diplomatically.
 
I bet the US will use its flying nuclear super carrier to swiftly defeat the Vietnamese armies in Venezuela, who are mostly armed with sticks and nets. No problem! Thread done.
 
Crezth said:
I bet the US will use its flying nuclear super carrier to swiftly defeat the Vietnamese armies in Venezuela, who are mostly armed with sticks and nets. No problem! Thread done.
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I don't think it would take to long to defeat Maduro if USA directly intervened. I'm not convinced Maduro will pull the trigger or not though.
 
Gorbles said:
"opinions I don't like shouldn't be allowed in a discussion thread" is not the take I expected so early on. We're not even a page in yet.
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Not what I said so complete strawman.

So how do you defend this a country outright wanting to seize is neighbour's resources? Based on pretty much nothing except a poll among themselves?
 
Zardnaar said:
Not what I said so complete strawman.

So how do you defend this a country outright wanting to seize is neighbour's resources? Based on pretty much nothing except a poll among themselves?
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You called it "defending the indefensible", so no, not a strawman. If someone leveled that at you, you'd complain your opinion was being put down. Fair is fair, right?

As for "how do you defend", I have no interest in defending it. Conflicting information is still emerging and likely will for some time, it's mainly the responses (like yours) that are funny. A lot of "defending the indefensible" goes on around here. You do it in other topics. So what's the point of the moral posturing?

Tell me. Are you interested in the actual people harmed by this? Do you care what happens to them?

Or is your interest based on the fact it's Maduro (given your longstanding disdain for him), and / or that the topic gives you the opportunity to dunk on some online left-leaning posters? :)
 
Zardnaar said:
I don't think it would take to long to defeat Maduro if USA directly intervened. I'm not convinced Maduro will pull the trigger or not though.
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Well, it took quite a while for US to defeat Vietnam. In the end they didn't, due to international support from China and Russia.

How's Venezuela's ties with China and Russia?

Ample opportunity to stir up another long term unsolvable conflict in hegemon's back yard.

china-xi-says-upgrading-venezuela-ties-after-meeting-maduro
 
Gorbles said:
You called it "defending the indefensible", so no, not a strawman. If someone leveled that at you, you'd complain your opinion was being put down. Fair is fair, right?

As for "how do you defend", I have no interest in defending it. Conflicting information is still emerging and likely will for some time, it's mainly the responses (like yours) that are funny. A lot of "defending the indefensible" goes on around here. You do it in other topics. So what's the point of the moral posturing?

Tell me. Are you interested in the actual people harmed by this? Do you care what happens to them?

Or is your interest based on the fact it's Maduro (given your longstanding disdain for him), and / or that the topic gives you the opportunity to dunk on some online left-leaning posters? :)
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If Maduro sits in his own border I don't xare. He can run his failed state as he sees fit.

What's conflicting about invading your neighbor on virtually no pretext beyond "I want this dirt".

His "claims" are based on a self selected referendum and very dubious administration in Colonial times.

There's no ethnic or linguistic ambiguity.
 
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