Venice discussion

Doesn't having one city limit the victory types that Venice can have? For example, a domination or scientific victory would be close to impossible, and a diplomatic victory seems hard unless you take full advantage of the double trade routes, which are near impossible to have if your capital is inland. Taking over city states also hurts your chances of diplomatic victory, so the only choice is really culture, which can be hard if you don't stay ahead in science. I know that it is designed to be a hard civ to play as, but if the ability is destroying the chances of victory, what good is it at all?
 
Do you suppose one of the Achievements is for capturing Constantinople as Venice?
 
Viregel said:
Doesn't having one city limit the victory types that Venice can have? For example, a domination or scientific victory would be close to impossible, and a diplomatic victory seems hard unless you take full advantage of the double trade routes, which are near impossible to have if your capital is inland. Taking over city states also hurts your chances of diplomatic victory, so the only choice is really culture, which can be hard if you don't stay ahead in science. I know that it is designed to be a hard civ to play as, but if the ability is destroying the chances of victory, what good is it at all?
Click to expand...

Domination is easy because you can puppet the cities. There's no limit on puppeting in the ability.

Didn't they change diplomatic to require 2/3 vote of everyone. If that's "everyone remaining," it doesn't limit them there. If not, it's no more limiting than Austria.

As for what it's good for. You can't go wrong with lots of gold.

Also, someone check my math. If you send food through a caravan, it's +2 food per turn, right? If you send both your caravan and trade ship, it would be +4. Venice will have two of each. That means you can give your capital something like 8 food per city owned if you do it right. So, for example, if you own five cities, you can give your capital 40 food per turn.
 
Nope, it doesn't, they can't expand from 1 city, but unless you play with 0 civs and overpowered AI, then the chances are you can conquer few cities, rise your pop level, get those scientific buildigns (I mean, Austria can't built anything in cities that have an automatic gold focus, Venice can). And ta-dah, a nice science output (I had about 1000 beakers on Warlord in MP when I started absorbing anything with that City State Icon). Domination is not a problem either. Even Diplomatic, but that's a question mark because we haven't seen the impact of City States on the voting yet (how much they are needed to win a Diplomatic Victory).
 
Louis XXIV said:
Then take it from the other civ.

This is like saying "you better hope the cities you built have oil somewhere. Sure, you could conquer a city from another civ, but it's a pain."
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It's not like saying that at all. With any other civ, in the unlikely event that the empire you've staked out from building five, six cities or whatever has no oil at all, you can then found another city somewhere in a snowy wasteland that has oil but was left unclaimed because it has nothing else. It's far more likely that a one-city civ will not have oil within its borders.
 
Louis XXIV said:
Domination is easy because you can puppet the cities. There's no limit on puppeting in the ability.

Didn't they change diplomatic to require 2/3 vote of everyone. If that's "everyone remaining," it doesn't limit them there. If not, it's no more limiting than Austria.

As for what it's good for. You can't go wrong with lots of gold.

Also, someone check my math. If you send food through a caravan, it's +2 food per turn, right? If you send both your caravan and trade ship, it would be +4. Venice will have two of each. That means you can give your capital something like 8 food per city owned if you do it right. So, for example, if you own five cities, you can give your capital 40 food per turn.
Click to expand...

Your math is a bit off. From screenshots we have seen so far it's 4 food/production for a land trade route and 9 food/production for a sea trade route. I doubt that you can have both a land and a sea route between the same two cities though. But your general idea is right, with all the extra trade routes you have, Venice could become a monster city by using internal trade routes.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
Do you suppose one of the Achievements is for capturing Constantinople as Venice?
Click to expand...

That or establish a trade route over land to China, crossing x civs, but that might be to close to the Silk Road achievement...
 
There is no reason to think you have 50-50 sea and land trade routs.

The tech tree says you get a bonus trade rout doesnt say witch one.

I also saw different ratios of them in posted videos.

If you think of it it would be pretty dull to waste 5 or more trade routs on plains map.
 
baptismbyfire: If a trading powerhouse like Venice can survive to the point of Oil being discovered, why should they have a problem gaining access to it? Simply ally with a CS that has it within their borders, and that should not be too difficult to accomplish, should it?

If you don't trust the CS to protect itself (and, incidentally, if you're doing this, you might want to look at the Arsenal of Democracy tenet), then simply Yoink it with a MoV and run it yourself.
 
Louis XXIV said:
Domination is easy because you can puppet the cities. There's no limit on puppeting in the ability.
Click to expand...

You can puppet cities with anyone. Other civs that are good at domination (Germany, Japan, America) can do that too, except they have some extra bonus that makes taking those cities easier.

Louis XXIV said:
Didn't they change diplomatic to require 2/3 vote of everyone. If that's "everyone remaining," it doesn't limit them there. If not, it's no more limiting than Austria.
Click to expand...

It's easier to get city-states to vote for your victory than Civs. But indeed, it's no more limiting than Austria's ability.
 
VainApocalypse: Venice's major advantage in creating a puppet Empire is that they can purchase units in puppetted cities. So while you are correct in that they get no inherent advantage in getting that first city (unless, um, you count their Naval Support Galleass....), they certainly can defend their holdings and push out from them much more flexibly than others.
 
Calouste said:
Your math is a bit off. From screenshots we have seen so far it's 4 food/production for a land trade route and 9 food/production for a sea trade route. I doubt that you can have both a land and a sea route between the same two cities though. But your general idea is right, with all the extra trade routes you have, Venice could become a monster city by using internal trade routes.
Click to expand...

The screens where there is 4/9 food/production are from a good way through the game (or advanced starts) though. I expect it'll be lower in the earlier eras.

This is probably why the MoV is in (and a free one granted at Compass): so you can easily nab a couple nearby CS puppets to get DTRs rolling and not fall behind while waiting for your opponents to settle into you.
 
Ulthwithian said:
VainApocalypse: Venice's major advantage in creating a puppet Empire is that they can purchase units in puppetted cities. So while you are correct in that they get no inherent advantage in getting that first city (unless, um, you count their Naval Support Galleass....), they certainly can defend their holdings and push out from them much more flexibly than others.
Click to expand...

Can they purchase units in puppeted cities? It was only said that they could purchase their Great Merchants in them.

That would be wonderful, as otherwise they'd be limited to only purchasing one military unit a turn.
 
VainApocalypse said:
Can they purchase units in puppeted cities? It was only said that they could purchase their Great Merchants in them.
Click to expand...

You're reading it wrong. "May purchase in city-states." does not refer to Merchants of Venice, it means that you can buy any normal unit or building in a puppet. "Purchase" is being used in the technical sense, not the generic sense.
 
VainApocalypse: Well, the UA is unclear, but I would argue that if you could only purchase MoV in puppetted Cities, that would be an ability of the MoV, not an ability of their UA, no?

The line in their UA is its own sentence, which would make me believe that it is separate from anything else.
 
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