Venice Struggles

[MechMedic130]

Let me start off first by saying I love playing as Venice, it is by far my favorite Civ. I think Venice is a really fun, unique way to play the game. That being said, I've come up with a few Venice Struggles that only people that play Venice a lot can relate to. Here is my list, feel free to add your own.

- Settling and realizing some key resources is JUST outside of your city limits. I've actually gone to war to earn a Great General just so I can snatch a resource just outside my borders.

- Playing on a continents map, finding all these wonderful city state neighbors and then realizing the only other civ on the same continent as you is Mongolia. Then you get to watch him steamroll all of your trading partners while you curse at the screen.

- Playing on an archipelago map and realizing you are almost completely isolated, with almost zero trade routes available until you can extend your range.

- Debating whether buying a City State is worth the lost vote for Diplomacy victory at the end of the game. I've fallen one vote short then watched another Civ go to space two turns before the vote that would have won the game for me.

- Having a Civ settle too close to you and eat up hexes. I mean come on, I get one city, there has to be a better place. And it always seems to be somebody I was trying to be friendly with.

- Having every other civ go Order and then end up hating you for being Freedom.

What are some of your Venice Struggles?

 

[jumanjero]

Ok, I've actually registered just to say how much I agree on each and every statement.

Another one that haven't been mentioned is cultural victory on immortal and higher. Almost every game, after sacrificing everything in order to get key buildings, fast, I end up with someone finishing sistine chapel, uffizi, louvre etc just a few turns before I make it.

 

[Redaxe]

Let me start off first by saying I love playing as Venice, it is by far my favorite Civ. I think Venice is a really fun, unique way to play the game. That being said, I've come up with a few Venice Struggles that only people that play Venice a lot can relate to. Here is my list, feel free to add your own.

- Settling and realizing some key resources is JUST outside of your city limits. I've actually gone to war to earn a Great General just so I can snatch a resource just outside my borders.

- Playing on a continents map, finding all these wonderful city state neighbors and then realizing the only other civ on the same continent as you is Mongolia. Then you get to watch him steamroll all of your trading partners while you curse at the screen.

- Playing on an archipelago map and realizing you are almost completely isolated, with almost zero trade routes available until you can extend your range.

- Debating whether buying a City State is worth the lost vote for Diplomacy victory at the end of the game. I've fallen one vote short then watched another Civ go to space two turns before the vote that would have won the game for me.

- Having a Civ settle too close to you and eat up hexes. I mean come on, I get one city, there has to be a better place. And it always seems to be somebody I was trying to be friendly with.

- Having every other civ go Order and then end up hating you for being Freedom.

What are some of your Venice Struggles?

Lol this sounds like a Venice nightmare for sure. Probably the worst is settling a coastal tile (usually near Tundra) then rushing the Colossus only to find that you are in a inland arctic sea and your sea trade routes are going to go nowhere.

One thing though with having Civs settle near you and also about trying to get to resources beyond the 3rd ring of Venice. Make sure you pick the Tradition Opener for border growth and secondly (depending on difficulty) try and grab an early culture wonder - the Oracle is great the +3 culture helps those borders develop a bit faster.

Secondly if you have spare gold try and buy as many of the cheaper tiles around your capital that you can afford so you start claiming the 4th and 5th ring earlier.

Also keeping scouts near your borders is also necessary. If you see settlers moving near you it's a good idea to capture them.

 

[MechMedic130]

I always go Tradition, and usually when I play Venice I try to buy as many tiles as possible. I find that Swords into Plowshares is a great religious tenet with Venice also, really gets that growth zooming since I typically try to play peaceful.

Oracle I usually get because the AI doesn't seem to really favor it compared to other wonders. I also try to grab Great Lighthouse if possible just so my navy can be more daunting. In my recent game on Emperor difficulty I ended up on a continent with Spain, Germany, the Huns and the Zulu. Suffice it to say, war was not an option. Having a Navy that can actually support city state allies is huge since marching a small Army across continent isn't always practical. Instead I set up ranged ships in my most vulnerable allies ports and try to bombard attackers. I eventually had to give up on the game though, even though I was ahead of most of the other civs. Shaka steamrolled too many city states for me to try to liberate, Gaja Mada had Forbidden Palace and there was just no way I'd ever get enough city states to win a Diplomacy victory in time.

I feel like as soon as I pick Venice as my civ the game decides to load my continent with ultra aggressive civ's.

 

[beetle]

I always go Tradition...

I think Venice is locked into Tradition more than most civs.

In my recent game on Emperor difficulty... I eventually had to give up on the game though, even though I was ahead of most of the other civs.

I think you gave up too soon. I don't think CS being gobbled up makes the math impossible, but you could always fall back to purchasing SS parts. Winning from behind is the usual pattern for Immortal/Deity, so I don't understand why that could not be true for Emperor.

 

[HughFran]

Venice is such a difficult one to win with. Like even if Congress motions pass for World's Fair or International Games, you can never win because you only have one City contributing. It's so hard to build Wonders for the same reason and then you have to worry about being outmatched by Civs with a vast military. They might be interesting in the once city challenge though

 

[MechMedic130]

I've won both WF and IG, I just dedicate fully to production and use gold to get whatever else I nee.

 

[Sclb]

It depends on the difficulty, the chance of winning WF or IG playing OCC on deity is very low.

 

[claudiupb]

With Venice your puppets will also work on WF and IG, but the downside is you can't controll this (I think if you rush buy what they are currently producing they will switch to WF/IG but that is kind of a waste of hammers and also gold), and of course that puppets are by default at gold focus so they really won't contribute by too much.

 

[beetle]

I like to build up my expos so they can work on units -- so from the mid game onward the cap can focus on the guilds and National Wonders. OCC precludes that option, so that is my main struggle with Venice.

Let me start off first by saying I love playing as Venice, it is by far my favorite Civ. I think Venice is a really fun, unique way to play the game.

I would like to hear more about why people like Venice. The “unique way to play” appeal wore off for me quite quickly. I feel like I am missing out on something! As you point out, Venice games are subject to an extra set of frustrations. What makes up for that?

With Venice your puppets will also work on WF and IG, but the downside is you can't controll this (I think if you rush buy what they are currently producing they will switch to WF/IG but that is kind of a waste of hammers and also gold), and of course that puppets are by default at gold focus so they really won't contribute by too much.

My experience is that the switch to WF/IG is about 50/50. So I guess you have to be ready to rush buy the next thing the governor might put in the queue as well? Very much a waste of hammers and also gold. Then, like you say, you cannot switch them over to production focus. Even getting a 3rd or 2nd place for WF/IG is a struggle.

 

[lindsay40k]

I would like to hear more about why people like Venice. The “unique way to play” appeal wore off for me quite quickly. I feel like I am missing out on something! As you point out, Venice games are subject to an extra set of frustrations. What makes up for that?

A mountain of gold, a gigantic capital, and a free army when you research Optics.

 

[HughFran]

A mountain of gold, a gigantic capital, and a free army when you research Optics.

A free army after Optics? Could you elaborate?

 

[Mahasona]

A free army after Optics? Could you elaborate?

That'll be the free Merchant of Venice puppeting a CS. You'll not gain much of an army though by doing it too early.

 

[HughFran]

Ah I see! Thanks for clearing that up

 

[dunkleosteus]

It might almost be viable to not settle on turn 1 with Venice, just to find a better location. I've never tried that though.

With Venice I find it's important to get a few city states as puppets, but only for strategic reasons, such as trade route access I didn't have before. I've also found opportunities when I can take the allies of other civs just before a world congress vote, which can be helpful, as they spend so much time and money on the city state only to lose it permanently.

 

[MechMedic130]

A mountain of gold, a gigantic capital, and a free army when you research Optics.

There isn't much a pile of gold can't solve that's for sure, and using a few internal trade routes can turn your capitol into an absolute monster after you have a couple city states puppeted.

I think playing an aggressive Venice can be a lot of fun also. Depending on how your map is set up you can strategically buy city states and have 3 fronts to invade your neighbor. Nothing funner than buying your neighbors most loyal city state friend and then marching their army into their capitol.

France - "But what about all that culture we impressed you with???"

Prague - "Yeah sorry, nothing personal, but Marco Polo can be extremely convincing."

France has lost its Capitol.

Muahahahahaha!

 

[lindsay40k]

That'll be the free Merchant of Venice puppeting a CS. You'll not gain much of an army though by doing it too early.

Yep. I recently wonder rushed early on, gained three CB and two Spearmen from my first MoV and, with my existing barb hunters, proceeded to take out my four continental neighbours.

 

[lindsay40k]

It might almost be viable to not settle on turn 1 with Venice, just to find a better location. I've never tried that though.

Again with my recent game: settled on a hill, on a riverside, next to Mt. Fuji. Five turns of wandering = totally worth it

 

[helic0n]

My main Venice struggle has been deciding when to puppet my first CS. I tend to research Optics early - straight after Writing - because those sea resources need a lighthouse asap. This means I'd get the Merchant of Venice before I've discovered all the CSs and thus wasn't able to determine the best ones to puppet.

Of late I've opted to send that early MOV on a trade mission to the nearest Religious or Cultural CS and ally them for the significant faith/culture boost. By the time I get my second MOV I've a much better idea of which CSs I want to be puppeting.

From there I usually only puppet two CSs (for two food cargo ships to the capital) and use all future MOVs for trade missions. All that gold means any victory condition is possible.

 

[sixty4half]

I always want to puppet either the first or second CS I meet, with my Optics MoV. This allows internal trading ASAP and gets Venice taller. My 2nd CS is normally cross continent to set up trade routes I don't have access to. The 3rd is for the other Continent, so I have a presence there both militarily and economically. The 4th, if I puppet 4, is only use once I research Oil/aluminum/uranium and realize I don't have access to it from either a CS Ally or my own borders.