Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[oldnooob]

Could flack tower upgrade or morph into something like a missile battery in the later eras?
Just thinking of the name.

 

[Noyyau]

Magellan's actually makes more sense with Maneuvering.

Sort of related: Is it possible to teach the AI to value more the Maneuvering promotion for wooden ships? I've rarely seen it on AI ships, mostly they go Navigation 1-3 or the Combat line.

 

[<Nexus>]

Like Potter's Hut, there are a few other buildings where I'd like to see them get a slightly longer lifespan. While I am in favor of buildings doing something other than remain static, either going obsolete or upgrading to another building, I think it has to be balanced against the investment needed to get the building in the first place. This especially matters with National and World Wonders, since you have a bigger investment to make.

There are four particular buildings I have in mind.

• Candlemaker's Shop: Available with Priesthood and Trade, obsolete with Optics. I like Candlemaker's Shop as an early build for new cities, so I think it should stick around a bit longer. I'd like to have this go obsolete at Electricity, because that's when candlelight really starts to get obsolete.

How about giving it an upgrade building and obsolate it a bit later?

Upgrade could be Electrical grid requiring pover.

• Royal Tournament: Available with Heraldry, obsolete with Cavalry Tactics. Only a handful of units can benefit from this: Heavy Horseman, Rider, Knight, Mailed Knight, War Elephant, and Elephant Bombardier. I would like to move this to obsoleting at Military Tradition so Cuirassier and Lancer can also benefit.

• Flak Tower: Available with Automatic Weapons and Radio and Flight, obsolete with Supersonic Flight. This is less than an era of existence, which isn't nearly enough for a National Wonder. I think Hypersonic Flight or maybe even Orbital Flight would be better.

I agree with oldnoob. If it is possible...

• Magellan's Expedition: Available with Navigation, obsolete with Screw Propeller. Magellan's Expedition has two strikes against it; first, its very short lifespan (again, less than 1 era) and second, it feels almost totally overshadowed by Naval Academy, as they grant the same promotion (Navigation I), have similar cultural bonuses (+4 for Magellan, +3 for Naval Academy), and the Naval Academy grants more XP (+3 vs. +2). I suspect Naval Academy used to be a lot more restricted in the early versions of RoM before it got to where it is now. I think what we should do is make Magellan never go obsolete and change its promotion from Navigation I to Maneuvering I. Maneuvering I is a lot more valuable for Wooden Ships, because Ocean squares have a terrain cost of 2 and Maneuvering I is just about the only way to get -1 terrain cost. Later ships ignore terrain movement costs, so it doesn't matter as much to them, but I find myself universally going for Maneuvering I on wooden ships so that they won't be crippled trying to cross oceans.

Maybe not never go obsolate, but much later? Late modern or early transhuman era?
I like the rest


An other building I think goes obsolate tooooo early:
Monument goes obsolate at Astronomy. But why?????
I understand that Stonhenge goes obsolate with it, but Monument?
It is a cultural (and bit religious) building, but has nothing to do with Astronomy.

 

[Vokarya]

Could flack tower upgrade or morph into something like a missile battery in the later eras?
Just thinking of the name.

Flak Tower is a National Wonder (I don't know why, but it is) so I don't want it to upgrade to anything. You can have upgrades TO National Wonders, but not FROM them.

 

[Vokarya]

How about giving it an upgrade building and obsolate it a bit later?

Upgrade could be Electrical grid requiring pover.

I don't want to go down that route. I think it's fine if Candlemaker's Shop goes obsolete, but I just want to adjust the timing.

An other building I think goes obsolate tooooo early:
Monument goes obsolate at Astronomy. But why?????
I understand that Stonhenge goes obsolate with it, but Monument?
It is a cultural (and bit religious) building, but has nothing to do with Astronomy.

I'm fine with Monument going obsolete. By the time you get to Astronomy, there are a lot of other cultural buildings available. If you remember original Civ4, Monument and Stonehenge went obsolete at Calendar. That's way too early.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm fine with Monument going obsolete. By the time you get to Astronomy, there are a lot of other cultural buildings available. If you remember original Civ4, Monument and Stonehenge went obsolete at Calendar. That's way too early.

I don't agree, but accept your point.
But could we just get a better tech to obsolate monument? I will look after it, if you don't mind.

EDIT: Or could we just get an upgrade building for it?

 

[dbkblk]

EDIT: Or could we just get an upgrade building for it?

You mean a MEGA-monument with lights everywhere ?

 

[<Nexus>]

You mean a MEGA-monument with lights everywhere ?

Yeah, just 30 mins after leaving the forum I realised how stupid idea that was

But back to obsolation: It really makes no sense for me that monuments obsolate. How do they obsolate, anyway? Monuments were used in all eras throughtout history.
Even the more ancient a monument is, the more valuable it is.

 

[os79]

Yeah, just 30 mins after leaving the forum I realised how stupid idea that was

But back to obsolation: It really makes no sense for me that monuments obsolate. How do they obsolate, anyway? Monuments were used in all eras throughtout history.
Even the more ancient a monument is, the more valuable it is.

I think you may want to view this way: the game is global strategy game, right? So to score on cultural level, the monument on global level, translated into the game, might fade away into overwhelming new cultural buildings and your ability to scale up or down culture of later game. So I imagine obsoleting monument here maybe is good way to keep game cultural score balanced.
Hope I'm clear above .

 

[<Nexus>]

I think you may want to view this way: the game is global strategy game, right? So to score on cultural level, the monument on global level, translated into the game, might fade away into overwhelming new cultural buildings and your ability to scale up or down culture of later game. So I imagine obsoleting monument here maybe is good way to keep game cultural score balanced.
Hope I'm clear above .

Yes, you are clear

It is again one of those things, that can be viewed from two totally different aspect, but both are good and reasonable.

 

[Vokarya]

Sometimes I find myself paying attention to the weirdest little bonuses. I am finding that the Tailor Shop is a bit too effective as a happiness-booster in the Classical and Medieval Eras. It can provide up to +2 happiness with both Cow and Dye resources.

I'd like to cut Tailor Shop back to just +1 happy with Dye. I don't mind the Dye resource bonus (in fact, it feels more appropriate on Tailor Shop than it does on Theatre), but both seems to be too much. It makes Tailor Shop as effective as most Temples or almost a Colosseum. Also, it adds to the general happiness creep, as all these little bonuses add up, and I don't feel that leather is as much a fashion statement when the Tailor Shop appears as it is a utility resource. I'd still cut the bonus entirely and not try to give Tailor Shop any bonus from Cow. 5 potential bonuses (Sheep, Silk, Cotton, Fur, Dye) is enough for one building.

 

[os79]

Suggestion:
Playing latest stable RAND2 download. I think Dungeon should be removed if No Espionage is clicked. Or find different function for it for that option.

 

[Vokarya]

Suggestion:
Playing latest stable RAND2 download. I think Dungeon should be removed if No Espionage is clicked. Or find different function for it for that option.

Unfortunately, you can only have one <PrereqGameOption> per building. Dungeon is already using the ExpandedCastles option (<PrereqGameOption>GAMEOPTION_CASTLES</PrereqGameOption>) so that's not possible within the confines of the XML.

I think the Espionage gets converted to Culture anyway. If you play with No Espionage, then all Espionage bonuses get converted to Culture points. It's using an XML tag that I had never looked at before: <CultureAttacks>.

 

[os79]

Unfortunately, you can only have one <PrereqGameOption> per building. Dungeon is already using the ExpandedCastles option (<PrereqGameOption>GAMEOPTION_CASTLES</PrereqGameOption>) so that's not possible within the confines of the XML.

I think the Espionage gets converted to Culture anyway. If you play with No Espionage, then all Espionage bonuses get converted to Culture points. It's using an XML tag that I had never looked at before: <CultureAttacks>.

Thank you.
This building is actually created by Afforess with his code in DLL to go with it, I believe. The building itself is in Expanded Castle Buildings modcomp.

Thanks for reminder about Espionage being converted into Culture. I forgot about that lol.

 

[Vokarya]

I think this has been asked for more than once, but I finally got a chance to work up a pair of buildings that fit with my general philosophies on new content: it should do at least one of reinforcing weak technologies or be either a precursor or an upgrade of an existing building, and preferably both.

The Textile Mill is an upgrade of the Tailor Shop. The Tailor Shop shows up at Aesthetics and doesn't really go anywhere until it goes obsolete at Globalization. The key point for me to create the Mill is that the required technology is Replaceable Parts. On my trick-rating scale, Replaceable Parts comes in at a 1.5, and it's a not very good 1.5, being cobbled together from three minor tricks (+1 food from Watermill, +1 production from Watermill and Windmill, and +1 commerce from Silk Farm). This gives it at least one major trick to call its own.

Textile Mill increases the commerce bonuses from the same resources as Tailor Shop from 5% to 8%, and gets an additional +8% commerce with Hemp (Weaver's Hut gets a bonus from Hemp, but Tailor Shop does not). So this can theoretically double the commerce bonus from 20% (5% x 4 resources) to 40% (8% x 5 resources). It also keeps the +1 happy from Dye (I'm cutting the +1 happy from Cow for Tailor Shop, so that doesn't need to carry over) and +1 unhealth. Early industrial buildings weren't very healthy.

View attachment 377709View attachment 377710

The Cotton Gin is a companion to the Textile Mill. It requires a considerable investment in Textile Mills to make the Gin buildable (the base is 4, meaning you'll probably need 6 on a Standard map for each one), as well as Cotton in the city vicinity. The benefits are you get 25% faster production of additional Textile Mills per Gin and +1 Specialist per Plantation in the city vicinity. The XML does not permit anything finer than this, and I think it's okay if other Plantations (banana, dye, incense, sugar) also benefit. I considered making this a National Wonder, but I think it's good as a regular building with a substantial building requirement to really take advantage of.

View attachment 377711View attachment 377712

 

[gay_Aleks]

Isn't Tailor Shop available only through the Early Buildings option? Wouldn't that mean the same for the Textile Mill/Cotton Gin?

 

[Vokarya]

Isn't Tailor Shop available only through the Early Buildings option? Wouldn't that mean the same for the Textile Mill/Cotton Gin?

Not necessarily. Each building has to have whichever option allows it/stops it set individually. I did not set any options for Textile Mill; it simply won't have anything to replace if you don't play with EB (although this is an option that I personally wouldn't play the game without using).

 

[Rezca]

Not necessarily. Each building has to have whichever option allows it/stops it set individually. I did not set any options for Textile Mill; it simply won't have anything to replace if you don't play with EB (although this is an option that I personally wouldn't play the game without using).

Early Buildings is an option I always play with ON as well, I don't see why it's not a default option already

It's nothing really game changing like Fixed Borders, or Revolutions, or Advanced Nukes/Castles/Economy/etc...

 

[Arakhor]

I agree. I always have on Early Buildings.

 

[<Nexus>]

I agree. I always have on Early Buildings.

me too