Von Münchhausen IV

[Optional]

The first Brave New World SG? Likely. I will send out some PM's. The regulars of the previous games won't need much of an introduction to this SG. The first post is always boring; no game pictures yet, I never decide anything in the first post, I always prefer some team chat about that.

Especially which civ we play I like to hear you about, although I'll say I'm not so keen on Venice...
Victory condition; Cultural? That hasn't been done yet in SG form, and cultural has received a big make-over this expansion. I would like to explore that, I haven't got much idea yet of what's going on there.
For map size I suggest Standard. We've done a few small ones, so I would like a bigger size again this time, and larger than Standard will probably not get the popular vote.
Which map script? I have no idea.
Difficulty level... not sure. The AI bonuses have been bumped up a bit, so at first I thought a step down to Emperor would be logical for a first game with BNW, but now I'm seeing threads where players say they moved up level with BNW, as the game has become easier for them. I don't know how difficult Cultural is.
Mods might be an easier topic this time. I saw that there's an InfoAddict light version now that doesn't affect saves, so it's fire-up-as-you-go, no team commitment needed, so I can recommend that to players who want an extra overlay of info (but it gives less info than the original InfoAddict). Link to InfoAddict light: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=500839.
DLC; it'll be easy to leave out Denmark, Babylon, Korea, Polynesia and Inca. Must I also leave out Artemis and Halicarnassus? I'm used to playing with those, but if not everyone has them we'll just leave them out.

I'll copy some game rules we used in the previous SG's, I believe we can stick with them:
*No worker stealing (declaring war on a CS for the sole reason to grab a worker);
*No settling on resources - unless it's a one-tile island or so;
*No selling resources and declaring war straight after - we are to respect the duration of trade deals where we are exporting something on a per-turn basis.

Please sign up!

 

[avl8]

Count me in!
Im playing immortal, got every DLC youve mentioned except Artemis/Halicarnassus one.
I think its pretty interesting level , where AI got serious boosts but still can be controlled.

Cultural game is fun since it can be won via different strategies now. Ive did only one so far with Maya, so im pretty interested in game of culture.

 

[NotSure]

EUIV comes out next week, but I think I'd enjoy a BNW SG game to keep me playing CiV a little. I haven't played too much of the expansion. I only finished one game and played a little with all of the new civs, so I'm ok with whatever civ we want to play. Your suggestions sound good to me (standard map, Emperor or Immortal, Cultural VC, no Venice). In fact, I wish there was a way to remove Venice from possible opponents (and maybe the Zulu and the Huns, since I'm calling out troll civs).

The game I finished was on Immortal. My impression was that the AI is more challenging if you try to turtle your way to victory (they go after wonders and religion hard), but they can be beaten pretty easily if you play an aggressive game.

A couple of those game rules have been worked into BNW directly or indirectly. You can't make lump-sum trades unless you're in a DoF, so sell and DoW is out, and settling on resources is a bad move because the yields are better on improved tiles (and other gold on the map was removed). Gold is tight until you can get a few trade units out, so wasting a good gold and/or production tile by settling on it is usually bad play. Worker stealing is still a thing though.

Brazil or Poland seem best for culture to me. Portugal, Morocco, and Assyria (my favorite) would also work, but in a different way.

 

[Optional]

We need a few more people! Anyone welcome. Hopefully over the weekend a few more will join in...

A couple of those game rules have been worked into BNW directly or indirectly. You can't make lump-sum trades unless you're in a DoF, so sell and DoW is out, and settling on resources is a bad move because the yields are better on improved tiles (and other gold on the map was removed). Gold is tight until you can get a few trade units out, so wasting a good gold and/or production tile by settling on it is usually bad play. Worker stealing is still a thing though.

I wasn't even thinking about what BNW had changed, it has made some practices less attractive indeed.
But I still see players who purely care about result settle on the nearest lux as their first move in the game, like in Immortal Challenge 14, I guess saving out on a worker and worker turns is still a big deal.

I find it personally not very important that the civ we play as is strong for the win condition or map we pick, although we did do that in the previous SG's with Siam and Carthage. But just liking a civ would be enough to put it up as a candidate.

 

[NotSure]

I haven't seen a post from grandad, goz, or brichals on the forums since our last SG ended. Hopefully they'll check the forum on the weekend.

 

[avl8]

Why so few talented players wants to play SG these times?

 

[Optional]

I don't know. It was no problem the previous SG's to get a team together, but it were always the same players. I think those people have now taken a break from the game (and didn't snap up BNW).
I'll see if I can plug this SG a bit more, put a post in Strategy & Tips or something. I had an exhausting week with quite some overtime, so I haven't been able to do much about it before, just wanted to sleep in my limited free time.
If we just get one more player, that's 4, and 4 is fine. The first Von Münchhausen was played with just 4 players as well. There's always the chance of more players wanting to join once we've started. In Von Münchhausen I we just couldn't fit them in because we were playing with DLC that they missed. If we start, it will be with no DLC, so that we don't get into that situation again!

 

[avl8]

Cool, sounds like a good plan for me.
Ill bump your thread there for sure )

 

[grandad1982]

Hi guys. Like NotSure I'm waiting for EU4 to come out, but unlike him I don't think I'll join this SG to pass the time.

I've played 1 game of BNW since it came out and I did enjoy myself but I don't have the time to dedicate to playing a civ SG or even a reliable internet ATM to upload/download saves.

I'll try to lurk and if things change for me then I'll throw my hat or advice into the ring

Have a great game guys!

 

[Khal Drogo]

I would be very interested in that, but I bought my first Civ game ever a few days ago. So I might piss off some of you guys for being a noob.

So basically we share the savegame and play one session together, is that right?

 

[grandad1982]

I would be very interested in that, but I bought my first Civ game ever a few days ago. So I might piss off some of you guys for being a noob.

So basically we share the savegame and play one session together, is that right?

The best way to see what an SG is all about is to have a quick look at one of the previous Von Münchhausen games.

In short you set goals as a team discuss strategies to reach those goals, post a plan for discussion before you play your set, play your set, write a report/turn log (with pictures preferably) and post the save for the next person to play their set.

Sets tend to be 10 or 15 turns long, which seems short but it can take a long time to play with the level of concentration thats required to play well and make notes at the same time. The report can also take some time to put together. For me in the mid game it would take about 2/3 hours to play and report.

IMO this is the best way to play civ....

 

[Optional]

I would be very interested in that, but I bought my first Civ game ever a few days ago. So I might piss off some of you guys for being a noob.

Although a Succession Game is an excellent way to learn the game, if you just bought your first ever Civ game a few days ago this Succession Game will come too soon. If you had just bought Civ 5 a few days ago but you had at least experience from some previous game it might have been alright, but Civ is a complex game, concepts like happiness, trading & diplomacy take some time to get your head around. It took me about half a year before I knew what I was doing, back in 2006 with Civ III. Regularly reading these forums helps a lot (I don't think I discovered them straight away).

There used to be Training Day Games, Succession Games with a lot bigger training aspect on a low level, that might have been perfect for you, but I don't see those making a return; the Succession Game section in these forums is a little too quiet.

I think you'll need to explore the game on your own a bit first, familiarize yourself with the buttons, the concepts, get to know the screens, the tech tree and such, and then join an SG. Maybe then we'll see you in the next one!

Hi Grandad! Thanks for popping by, no sweat if you pass on this one. Good luck and we'll look out for your hat or advice once you've thrown it in the ring!

 

[Deau]

Hi,

How exactly is the dynamic of the game played? Like is there a nightly commitment of time? Since you are aiming a CV, I might be interested to participate I'm just afraid that my availability might not be fit.

What difficulty is this played on? I tend to find it rough not to steal workers on deity when aiming for CV just because of how much more of "everything" this VC requires but if it's below deity, I'm sure it's very achievable without.

If an original succession game thread explains all those details feel free to just add a link. I am really only a S&T subforum lurker usually so I haven't seen the previous SG thread during my daily reading! Currently reading http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=456545

I may be a little too experienced to play below immortal and while I am typically a deity player, all starts are not suitable for CV so by going down to immortal and not picking an overpowered civ/start, I could probably both learn and teach in a SG.

Availability shouldn't be an issue. I typically check the forums everyday and in the rare cases when I do it not from home and thus can't open a save, I can still comment and discuss based on SSs. I have one primary issue with the concept of not making decisions beyond the scope of our own set. CV is more wonder-dependant than any other VC and most wonders take more than 10 turns to build AND involve a slightly altered tech path such that it makes it difficult not to at least agree upon a wonder/tech path beyond the scope of a 10 turn set. Even a 20 turn set is too little until medieval/renaissance for such drastic decisions.

I have all DLCs and expansions, I don't mind picking up mods for the sake of a play although I don't think I have any D/Led atm. I prefer keeping it simple esp any mods that alters gameplay since it turns the games very hard to bring up and discuss in S&T where most players play "the raw game".

If my deity experience isn't too much for this SG, I tend to pick a map based on selected civ or pick a civ based on selected map so depending on how/what other team members would prefer, I am somewhat flexible. I'd prefer standard size map but am flexible to small or large, no less (boring) no more (comp can't handle the late game huge).

 

[NotSure]

Hi,

How exactly is the dynamic of the game played? Like is there a nightly commitment of time? Since you are aiming a CV, I might be interested to participate I'm just afraid that my availability might not be fit.

What difficulty is this played on? I tend to find it rough not to steal workers on deity when aiming for CV just because of how much more of "everything" this VC requires but if it's below deity, I'm sure it's very achievable without.

Hi Deau,

I hope you can play this game. I've seen your posts and your impressive CV guide for BNW. You'll be our resident expert! The time commitment is about a couple of hours per week with regard to playing and reporting. Checking the thread every day to offer advise and keep track of the turns is really easy.

I may be a little too experienced to play below immortal and while I am typically a deity player, all starts are not suitable for CV so by going down to immortal and not picking an overpowered civ/start, I could probably both learn and teach in a SG.

We usually play Immortal. I'm assuming that's what we'll play here.

Availability shouldn't be an issue. I typically check the forums everyday and in the rare cases when I do it not from home and thus can't open a save, I can still comment and discuss based on SSs. I have one primary issue with the concept of not making decisions beyond the scope of our own set. CV is more wonder-dependant than any other VC and most wonders take more than 10 turns to build AND involve a slightly altered tech path such that it makes it difficult not to at least agree upon a wonder/tech path beyond the scope of a 10 turn set. Even a 20 turn set is too little until medieval/renaissance for such drastic decisions.

I agree with this. I think if you look at our previous SG games we do make a few long-term plans in those games. I prefer to plan techs and build orders as far out as possible, especially with culture and science games.

 

[Deau]

Cool. Thanks for the infos and I'm glad you've enjoyed the guide even though there's still a lot of work to do and a major problem I have not managed to solve yet for poor capital starts .

It's good to see that the wonder/tech aspect can be discussed and played as a team.

I'll try and add some SG subforum reading to my daily routine for the next few weeks. I'll wait and make sure that everyone else on the team is fine with a more experienced CV player in, I won't hold any grudge if someone would rather me not be in.

 

[OmniPotent42]

Count me in. I have all DLC and have no problem on Immortal, provided we roll a decent start.

 

[mad-bax]

If there is room for me then I'd like to play. I'm relatively new and have only played a handful of games, but all have been at emperor level. I played and won a cultural game with BNW (not using ICS).

If there is no room then that's fine.

 

[avl8]

Cool, we got a nice group now

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Just read the post in strategy. I might be interested if you still have room. I often play at immortal. Have tried deity a couple times but always failed.

 

[Optional]

Looks like we have a full ship!!! Weird; for almost a week no responses, then 4 sign-ups in an 8-hour period!

But I find 7 is one player too many. I've always said 4 is the minimum for an SG, 5 is ideal, 6 acceptable, but no more. Bob Morane was just too late; I'm ruthless. Please follow this thread, though, and lurkers' comments are very welcome - I often lurk myself in other players' SG's.

The roster could look like this:

NotSure
avl8
Deau
OmniPotent42
mad-bax
Optional

I put NotSure first as I'd like to ask him to do the first set (I played the first set in the first couple of Von Münchhausens, but I like a system of alternating). I've just put people in the order they came in here, we can always swap a bit if that works out better with people's time.
We'll do 10-turn sets. With 4 players I'm in favour of 15-turn sets, but with 6 players I find 10 better, otherwise the game is already half-way when it comes to the last players.

DLC;
Still need to make a decision here. No Ancient Wonders, as avl8 doesn't have them. Does everybody have all other DLC? That would be Babylon, Denmark, Inca, Polynesia and Korea. If so, I'd like to leave them in. If there's something someone hasn't got, we'll leave it out, but we only have our current group to mind, no new players will be accepted.

Difficulty Level;
That should be Immortal, by the looks of it. Dropping below that would be a bit weird with so many Immortal players, but Deity could be too tough, even if there's a Deity player among us. High level players often have a well studied approach to a game that doesn't always translate well to an SG with a random start and random group of players. And yes, the restrictions make a difference as well; you see the AI surging ahead while you're spending 10-15 turns building that worker... Difficulty levels come with AI bonuses that you can compensate for by allowing yourself some liberties.

Map/Civ;
I'd like a bit more input here, although people often don't have a strong opinion about this. NotSure is the only one who made some suggestions for civs and I'd like to throw France in the mix as well.
In recent SG's we've already seen Egypt, Siam, Songhai, Carthage, Celts and Aztecs, so we won't pick one of them, and I don't fancy Venice, but I like to hear some names from you; there must be civs that you like more than others.

We'll just go for a standard size map. An Archipelago-type map could be very sleepy, if I'm reading the comments in the forum about how peaceful the AI has become with BNW. A Pangaea-type map could then be a bit more interesting. We could keep it a bit random; the standard Pangaea map script checks whether 84% of the land belongs to the same landmass and makes sure all civs start on that landmass. I removed both rules from my map scripts, so the result is more random - still often a Pangaea, but sometimes Continents and on rare occasions it's more like an Archipelago.
We could keep with that bit of randomness.

With regards to Deau's question about my idea of not making decisions beyond your own set; I wasn't going against longer-term strategy there. It's more that one player on its own shouldn't be deciding on that.
Things like tech path, social policy path, religious beliefs and war/peace strategy will always need to be team decisions.
But there will be decisions with a longer term effect that you'll take on your own. Trade deals last 30 turns, and lots of them you'll make in a game and you won't always consult the team about selling a resource. If happiness allows and you can get a fair price for a luxury you sell it, strategic resources you sell as well if not immediately needed. If a war is in the planning then maybe not sell strategic resources, but we'd speak about those type of plans.