Vote for your 3 civs you would most like to see : Final Results
- Thread starter Liufeng
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The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Idea for the Toltecs:
Leader: Topiltzin
Ability: God-king of Tollan
Receives faith for unit kills in the Classical and Medieval ages
Leader: Topiltzin
Ability: God-king of Tollan
Receives faith for unit kills in the Classical and Medieval ages
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Thoughts on Morocco:
I'd like to see this civ transcend its previous depiction a little bit. Rather than being primarily North African civ, I'd like to see it depicted as one of the many dynasties that straddled Gibraltar. Al-Andalus was a major kingdom for centuries. Perhaps we could have an Almohad or an Almoravid?
Ya'qub al-Mansur might be better as a cultural leader than the later Ahmad al-Mansur. (There's a lot of al-Mansurs.)
Yusuf ibn Tashfin could be a good aggressive leader.
I'd like to see this civ transcend its previous depiction a little bit. Rather than being primarily North African civ, I'd like to see it depicted as one of the many dynasties that straddled Gibraltar. Al-Andalus was a major kingdom for centuries. Perhaps we could have an Almohad or an Almoravid?
Ya'qub al-Mansur might be better as a cultural leader than the later Ahmad al-Mansur. (There's a lot of al-Mansurs.)
Yusuf ibn Tashfin could be a good aggressive leader.
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Guandao
Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka
luigilime
Prince
I'm happy that Italy made it on the list because with this story about "we can't have two Romes in a game" it's giving me an headache. Since I'm studying Italian and Italian literature i can say that even though the Italians have been separated politically for centuries they have always considered themselves as ethnicly italians: already in the Renaissance literates like Bembo and Ariosto were discussing about which Italian dialect should be standard Italian for poetry and in the 1500s in Florence it was founded the "Accademia della crusca" that throughout history preserved the Italian language.
Coming back to the capital problem i think that Florence is a more appropriate capital for an Italian civ than Rome because from the middle ages till today it's always been a sort of cultural capital of Italy.
So that's that
Coming back to the capital problem i think that Florence is a more appropriate capital for an Italian civ than Rome because from the middle ages till today it's always been a sort of cultural capital of Italy.
So that's that
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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@luigilime: Feel free to contribute over at the Italian civ proposal thread. I'm hoping for both Florence and one other city as the predominant focus, similar to what was done with Greece:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/italy-the-two-leader-solution.612903/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/italy-the-two-leader-solution.612903/
Yes, apparently he beat Ramesses II to that and is officially the person with the most offspring in history.his 700th son?....
Guandao
Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka
I'm not sure whether to be impressed or disgusted...
A lot of Moroccans must be descended from him then.
Liufeng
A man of his time
May I ask something : could someone talk about the nubians ? About their possible gameplay focus, UU, UI/UB, possible leader(s), why you consider them as worthy, ... ? I realize by now I know almost nothing on them, except they ruled Egypt for a time ...
Guandao
Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka
They had their own kingdom for a substantial amount of time (Kingdom of Kush), built small unique pyramids, could have a unique ranged unit, had female leaders...
Their descendants converted to Christianity very early and had at least three different kingdoms: Makuria, Alodia, and Nobatia. Sadly, some of the archeological sites associated with the Christian Kingdoms are under the Nile now..
They also interacted with Aksum. And the Romans.
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Here are some good research topics for you or anyone else interested in the Nubians:
Nubia
Kingdom of Kush
Capitals: Napata, Kerma, Meroë
Leaders: Piye (conqueror of Egypt), Taharqa (the black Pharaoh), Kandake (the Nubian queens' title), Shanakdakheto (warrior queen)
Nubian Pyramids (shaped slightly differently from Egypt's)
Unit: Medjay (desert scouts and royal guardians)
Don't be concerned by their emulation of Egyptian styles; Nubia was influenced by Egypt the same way Rome emulated Greece.
Not sure if the following is meant to represent Taharqa or Piye:
Liufeng
A man of his time
Thank you a lot for your answers @Guandao and @The Kingmaker !
@IgorS You asked earlier about Zimbabwe (or rather Mutapa, but I have broaden it to include Great Zimbabwe and the Rozwi empire). I have made my research, and there you go, for leaders, cities, and others.
Leader : Changamire Dombo -> warmonger and conqueror leader
Leader 2 : Nyatsimbe Mutota -> bonus on founding cities and expansion
UU : Rozvi Warrior -> Those warriors were the backbone of the Rozvi empire army, and were feared by the portuguese for their high discipline, effectiveness and obedience, which allowed them to defeat them more than once. They wore axes, bows, spears and assegais.
UI : Stone Tower -> Great Zimbabwe is very known for its stone structures, unique in the african continent. If the tradition was partly lost during the Mutapa reign, the rozwi maintained it and built many stone structures.
City list : Great Zimbabwe, Zvongombe, Dambarare, Manyika, Masapa, Khambi, Danangombe, Naletale, Massapa, Maramuca, Piringani, Luanze, Angwa, Makaha, Chitomborwizi, Shigodora, Matuka, Rimuka, Bokuto, Vumba, Tafuna, Harare, Tete, Chitungwiza, Mutare, Gweru (This city list is inspired from 1/ Mutapa and Rozwi empire cities ; 2/ the places where portuguese "feiras" were installed within the Mutapa empire ; 3/ Today's Zimbabwe great cities, but only Shona ones, since the Zimbabweans empires were exclusevely Shona).
UA : Something related to either trade or cattles. the Zimbabwean region extensevely traded gold and ivory through the Zambezi, especially to the portuguese. Cattles were of utmost importance in Zimbabwean societies, as there were very little land for farming. Even tributes to the king were paid in cattle (and that is common in the three great Zimbabwean empires).
@IgorS You asked earlier about Zimbabwe (or rather Mutapa, but I have broaden it to include Great Zimbabwe and the Rozwi empire). I have made my research, and there you go, for leaders, cities, and others.
Leader : Changamire Dombo -> warmonger and conqueror leader
Leader 2 : Nyatsimbe Mutota -> bonus on founding cities and expansion
UU : Rozvi Warrior -> Those warriors were the backbone of the Rozvi empire army, and were feared by the portuguese for their high discipline, effectiveness and obedience, which allowed them to defeat them more than once. They wore axes, bows, spears and assegais.
UI : Stone Tower -> Great Zimbabwe is very known for its stone structures, unique in the african continent. If the tradition was partly lost during the Mutapa reign, the rozwi maintained it and built many stone structures.
City list : Great Zimbabwe, Zvongombe, Dambarare, Manyika, Masapa, Khambi, Danangombe, Naletale, Massapa, Maramuca, Piringani, Luanze, Angwa, Makaha, Chitomborwizi, Shigodora, Matuka, Rimuka, Bokuto, Vumba, Tafuna, Harare, Tete, Chitungwiza, Mutare, Gweru (This city list is inspired from 1/ Mutapa and Rozwi empire cities ; 2/ the places where portuguese "feiras" were installed within the Mutapa empire ; 3/ Today's Zimbabwe great cities, but only Shona ones, since the Zimbabweans empires were exclusevely Shona).
UA : Something related to either trade or cattles. the Zimbabwean region extensevely traded gold and ivory through the Zambezi, especially to the portuguese. Cattles were of utmost importance in Zimbabwean societies, as there were very little land for farming. Even tributes to the king were paid in cattle (and that is common in the three great Zimbabwean empires).
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My suggestions for Nubia:
UA When you build a mine that is not over a luxury or strategic resource, there is a 30% chance that the gold luxury is created beneath. It gives +5 gold yield and is otherwise a normal luxury resource. This reflects that nowhere in the ancient world more gold was mined than in Nubia, especially Wadi Allaqi. Some people believe that the name Nubia comes from the Egyptian word for gold: nub.
Leader Piye/Piankhi. There are other options as well. We know the names of many kings and queens. But to get to that strong personality, it has to be a leader that appears often in Egyptian or Roman texts. So Piye would be a good idea imo. There are some later meroitic options as well. Most depictions of Piye show him in a way that only slightly differs from Egyptian style (because they were made for Egypt). But they could use a statue of his son Shabaka, who is often depicted in a clearly different style.
Capital Napata (way earlier leaders would have Kerma, later leaders would use Meroe, christian leaders probably Dongola)
LUA When you conquer a city, population is not decreased and buildings are not damaged. Cities get automatically and instantly ceded to you when conquered. Based on Piyes conquering of Egypt.
UB Sakia. Replaces the water mill. Gives +1 production to the city and +1 food to all tiles with fresh water access. Easily the most important invention of christian Nubia. It's a bit strange that this would give Nubia the chance to get larger cities with more growth than the average civ, but so is the Mbanza and Kongo.
UU Nubian Bowman. Replaces the archer. Reduces strength of adjacent enemy units by -5. The UU itself has -5 defense strength against ranged attacks. Famous and feared around the ancient world. A strong synergy with the LUA.
Agenda Piye likes civs that trade luxuries with him and buy luxuries from him. Based on the fact that Nubia was very active in trading luxury goods from the south the the north.
Natural Wonder Gebel Barkal. The holiest mountain in Nubia (and maybe of ancient Egypt as well when it was part of the Egyptian empire) So it's benefit would be something that has to do with faith, religious units or great prophet points.
World Wonder Pyramids of Meroe (confusable with 'The Pyramids') or Abu Simbel (which was built by the Egyptians, but is probably the most famous building in Nubia).
UA When you build a mine that is not over a luxury or strategic resource, there is a 30% chance that the gold luxury is created beneath. It gives +5 gold yield and is otherwise a normal luxury resource. This reflects that nowhere in the ancient world more gold was mined than in Nubia, especially Wadi Allaqi. Some people believe that the name Nubia comes from the Egyptian word for gold: nub.
Leader Piye/Piankhi. There are other options as well. We know the names of many kings and queens. But to get to that strong personality, it has to be a leader that appears often in Egyptian or Roman texts. So Piye would be a good idea imo. There are some later meroitic options as well. Most depictions of Piye show him in a way that only slightly differs from Egyptian style (because they were made for Egypt). But they could use a statue of his son Shabaka, who is often depicted in a clearly different style.
Capital Napata (way earlier leaders would have Kerma, later leaders would use Meroe, christian leaders probably Dongola)
LUA When you conquer a city, population is not decreased and buildings are not damaged. Cities get automatically and instantly ceded to you when conquered. Based on Piyes conquering of Egypt.
UB Sakia. Replaces the water mill. Gives +1 production to the city and +1 food to all tiles with fresh water access. Easily the most important invention of christian Nubia. It's a bit strange that this would give Nubia the chance to get larger cities with more growth than the average civ, but so is the Mbanza and Kongo.
UU Nubian Bowman. Replaces the archer. Reduces strength of adjacent enemy units by -5. The UU itself has -5 defense strength against ranged attacks. Famous and feared around the ancient world. A strong synergy with the LUA.
Agenda Piye likes civs that trade luxuries with him and buy luxuries from him. Based on the fact that Nubia was very active in trading luxury goods from the south the the north.
Natural Wonder Gebel Barkal. The holiest mountain in Nubia (and maybe of ancient Egypt as well when it was part of the Egyptian empire) So it's benefit would be something that has to do with faith, religious units or great prophet points.
World Wonder Pyramids of Meroe (confusable with 'The Pyramids') or Abu Simbel (which was built by the Egyptians, but is probably the most famous building in Nubia).
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nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
You mean first generation off spring right? Genghis wins out on descendants overall?
DudewiththeFood
King
Genghis had siblings, his parents win. Or maybe their parents...
nzcamel
Nahtanoj the Magnificent
You'd be technically correct; but I suspect when they judge this they disqualify any who would win merely by being the parent/ancestor of the most prolific breeder; cos it (1) adds nothing of use; and (2) goes all the way back to goodness knows who.
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Some thoughts on Ethiopia:
Haile Selassie doesn't really hold my interest as a leader. I suppose they could bring back Zara Yaqob, but I'd prefer King Ezana.
What about Queen Yodit/Gudit, who was recently featured in one of the new AoE2 XPs? Of course, her reputation was as the ravager of Aksum rather than as a builder...
Haile Selassie doesn't really hold my interest as a leader. I suppose they could bring back Zara Yaqob, but I'd prefer King Ezana.
What about Queen Yodit/Gudit, who was recently featured in one of the new AoE2 XPs? Of course, her reputation was as the ravager of Aksum rather than as a builder...
SMcM
Emperor
I agree that having Ezana would be nice, but I feel like you are contradicting yourself by advocating him as a leader for Ethiopia and not Axum; if adding Italy alongside Rome makes sense as Rome and Italy are far enough apart that you feel they aren't heavily connected then surely by the same logic Ezana and Haille Sellassie aren't rulers of the same Civ?
The Kingmaker
Alexander
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Yodit (mentioned above) is actually the key. She brought down Aksum and started the so-called Dark Age from which the medieval Ethiopian Empire emerged, the same empire Haile Selassie ruled in modern times.
I wouldn't mind having both, but the average western gamer is much more likely to be able to distinguish between the Roman Empire and Renaissance Italy than they are between Aksum and Ethiopia. The paradigm of the intended audience is the deciding factor.
Aksum and Ethiopia also have a lot in common; both were Christian monarchies occupying the same territory.
I'd say it's more comparable to the difference between the Tang Dynasty and the Qing Dynasty in China. There were significant political and dynastic changes but the core civilization still appears to be more or less the same.
The Italian city-states, by contrast, appear very different from their imperial Roman forebears. Also, Rome's empire and those maintained by say, Genoa or Venice look very different. Besides, if we can have Byzantium, why not Italy?
I don't care if the African civ in question is called Aksum or Ethiopia in game, as long as that area is eventually represented at all. Historically, Africa hasn't received a lot of representation compared to Europe, and that obviously hasn't changed yet.
When it comes to Civ, I'll take everything I can get.
I wouldn't mind having both, but the average western gamer is much more likely to be able to distinguish between the Roman Empire and Renaissance Italy than they are between Aksum and Ethiopia. The paradigm of the intended audience is the deciding factor.
Aksum and Ethiopia also have a lot in common; both were Christian monarchies occupying the same territory.
I'd say it's more comparable to the difference between the Tang Dynasty and the Qing Dynasty in China. There were significant political and dynastic changes but the core civilization still appears to be more or less the same.
The Italian city-states, by contrast, appear very different from their imperial Roman forebears. Also, Rome's empire and those maintained by say, Genoa or Venice look very different. Besides, if we can have Byzantium, why not Italy?
I don't care if the African civ in question is called Aksum or Ethiopia in game, as long as that area is eventually represented at all. Historically, Africa hasn't received a lot of representation compared to Europe, and that obviously hasn't changed yet.
When it comes to Civ, I'll take everything I can get.
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