What happened to the OCC option?

M

Manannan

Prince
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
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After finishing a self imposed OCC game (slavs, apollo, contact, t262 btw) it dawned on me to ask; what happened to the OCC option in the advanced setup options exactly? Have the devs said why they took that option away or is that just one of those things that mysteriously disappeared for no good reason like the demographics screen? I get they're trying to encourage wide-play in this game but I'm honestly confused why they didn't include the option. :confused:
 
One city challenge?
 
My guess is that OCC is not seen as viable (in terms of gamplay or design) and thus not supported. Or it's a bug - you never know. :D
 
I love OCC games. Self-imposed OCC is not the same, since you can't conquer by insta-razing. So you can't really be OCC if you fight even a little.

It's one of the many things that they removed that piss me off.
 
I hate the excessive use of abbreviations on CFC forums...
 
It seems like Non-Explotive-OCC is pretty impossible in BE, the amount of stacking available is just too small. Some people have shown that OCC CAN be done by abusing spies, but I don't think a game option that needs massive abuse of one particular mechanic is something that needs to be in the game (and once AI gets buffed, it'll probably become impossible anyway). Although I wonder why they got rid of it ENTIRELY instead of just hiding the game option. Seems overkill to me that they removed it and thus don't even allow people who know what they're going into to play that way.
 
Ryika said:
It seems like Non-Explotive-OCC is pretty impossible in BE, the amount of stacking available is just too small. Some people have shown that OCC CAN be done by abusing spies, but I don't think a game option that needs massive abuse of one particular mechanic is something that needs to be in the game (and once AI gets buffed, it'll probably become impossible anyway). Although I wonder why they got rid of it ENTIRELY instead of just hiding the game option. Seems overkill to me that they removed it and thus don't even allow people who know what they're going into to play that way.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say 'abusing spies'. OCC in BE relies on systems other than numbers, just as it did in Civ:V. Spies have an inherent limit per civ, based simply on the NUMBER of spies per civ. Trade Routes have limits based on number of routes per city. The very fact that science and culture thresholds scale up based on number of cities makes OCC feasible. As mentioned, the only thing going against true OCC is the inability to win a domination victory with only one city, as you can't raze the enemy capitals.
 
CraziFuzzy said:
As mentioned, the only thing going against true OCC is the inability to win a domination victory with only one city, as you can't raze the enemy capitals.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could give the capitals to other AI, that way you keep only one city, but you need to count on the other AI be able to keep the city...
 
CraziFuzzy said:
I wouldn't say 'abusing spies'. OCC in BE relies on systems other than numbers, just as it did in Civ:V. Spies have an inherent limit per civ, based simply on the NUMBER of spies per civ.
Click to expand...
Spies give you 25% of the cost of your current reseach and all the other factors don't matter. That's why I (and other people) called them broken, their efficiency doesn't have ANYTHING to to with your empire per se. In an OCC, about 70% or something of your total science comes from spies... ^^
 
how can you play with one city anyway you wouldn't get enough science, energy or it would take forever? plus most of the fun is in colonizing right up to the AI border than piss them off enough they try to attack you so you can steamroll them :lol:
 
Ryika said:
It seems like Non-Explotive-OCC is pretty impossible in BE, the amount of stacking available is just too small. Some people have shown that OCC CAN be done by abusing spies, but I don't think a game option that needs massive abuse of one particular mechanic is something that needs to be in the game (and once AI gets buffed, it'll probably become impossible anyway). Although I wonder why they got rid of it ENTIRELY instead of just hiding the game option. Seems overkill to me that they removed it and thus don't even allow people who know what they're going into to play that way.
Click to expand...

How is using various very-strong-yea-this-should-probably-be-nerfed mechanics, but not using THE holy-hell-how-did-this-make-it-to-release-like-this-nerf-plz mechanic (ie: trade route abuse) an exploit exactly? It kind of turns into RNGesus versus the AIs which is bad game design, I'll admit that, but an exploit? The t262 time I mentioned in OP is a result of having my spies fail miserably at stealing techs a whole bunch of times, that still count as an exploit? The institute quest to get a free tech (more RNG gaming) is probably more of an issue if we want to talk about cheesey might I add.

bladex said:
how can you play with one city anyway you wouldn't get enough science, energy or it would take forever? plus most of the fun is in colonizing right up to the AI border than piss them off enough they try to attack you so you can steamroll them :lol:
Click to expand...

It's certainly viable, although probably as a result of bad game design (not an exploit!) more than anything. Yes, your science is low but spies and free techs from certain things help you beeline to the important techs you need (you need to be disciplined about now wandering off to get techs you don't need as well), energy isn't hard to accumulate over a game (hint: sell your strategics) and quite frankly doesn't matter much if you don't have anything to buy (which frequently you won't in an OCC), and it won't take much longer than a regular game as the amount of cities you have does nothing to change the time the AIs start going for victories. And putting some challenge back in the game is far more fun than beating up the AI in another war it can't possible win, which is why I'm bemoaning the death of the OCC option. :sad:

GAGA Extrem said:
My guess is that OCC is not seen as viable (in terms of gamplay or design) and thus not supported. Or it's a bug - you never know. :D
Click to expand...

I very much fear it's the former. Given how much else is broken in this game I wouldn't be shocked to find out they thought it wasn't viable and took it out to try to avoid frustrating people, not realizing that with all the imbalanced systems in the game it's not only possible it's frankly easy (well, for contact anyway). Would continue to support my "game is still secretly in beta" theory.

KrikkitTwo said:
One problem is some quests requires the use of outposts. (also 5 virtues would be useless and require adjustment..2 Prosperity, 2 industry, 1 Might)
Click to expand...

So what? Liberty in CiV didn't keep OCC out of that game. No one is forcing you to finish quests or take certain virtues, no rebalance is needed there.
 
Manannan said:
So what? Liberty in CiV didn't keep OCC out of that game. No one is forcing you to finish quests or take certain virtues, no rebalance is needed there.
Click to expand...

Liberty only had 2 policies that were useless (out of a total of 54 policies and 42 tenets)

The appearance of a quest is instead of another quest (particularly affinity ones)
 
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