When Lot offered his daughters to the angry mob...

[kramerfan86]

See stuff like this is what bugs me. You see this ridiculous passage cited for anti-gay arguments but oddly no one thinks they should use this passage to justify using your daughters as bargaining chips when convenient. Cherry picking, tons of cherry picking.

 

[Berzerker]

a Bible scholar from the early 1900s noticed the sumerian word for salt also meant vapor

and the story has a big problem, Abram and God have a discussion about the cities and God agrees to spare them if ~10 righteous people are found. But even excluding Lot's family, only a small group of men committed the offense. Its simply ridiculous to believe everyone in town from the elderly to children and women all wanted to rape Lot's guests.

About that time the 3rd dynasty of Ur collapsed from some environmental disaster, the Lamentations of Ur describe the "end" of the Sumerian civilization.

 

[Core Imposter]

a Bible scholar from the early 1900s noticed the sumerian word for salt also meant vapor

and the story has a big problem, Abram and God have a discussion about the cities and God agrees to spare them if ~10 righteous people are found. But even excluding Lot's family, only a small group of men committed the offense. Its simply ridiculous to believe everyone in town from the elderly to children and women all wanted to rape Lot's guests.

About that time the 3rd dynasty of Ur collapsed from some environmental disaster, the Lamentations of Ur describe the "end" of the Sumerian civilization.

Tell us more about that environmental disaster.

 

[Dachs]

Tell us more about that environmental disaster.

It only qualifies as an "environmental" disaster if the Elamites are considered to be part of the "environment".

 

[kramerfan86]

a Bible scholar from the early 1900s noticed the sumerian word for salt also meant vapor

and the story has a big problem, Abram and God have a discussion about the cities and God agrees to spare them if ~10 righteous people are found. But even excluding Lot's family, only a small group of men committed the offense. Its simply ridiculous to believe everyone in town from the elderly to children and women all wanted to rape Lot's guests.

About that time the 3rd dynasty of Ur collapsed from some environmental disaster, the Lamentations of Ur describe the "end" of the Sumerian civilization.

Justice and fairness were not particularly important lessons in the old testament.

 

[timtofly]

Maybe that was all Lot had to offer? Are you saying that bad things never happen? Should he have offered anything at all? What would the mob have done if he offered nothing? Are we so used to movies that have happy endings, that real life looks riduculous?

The sin of sodom was inhospitality? Lot refused to let the whole town share in being hospitable? Seems to me that Lot either condemned the city itself by not letting it be hospitable or the city just killed every one that came to town and Lot decided to protect his guest, ie just trying to be hospitable.

 

[kochman]

The moral of most of the OT is that God reserves the right to judge/punish... Getting into the exact details is not something I really do. It was basically, Jews, you're straying... do what I command, or pay the price.

It also serves to foretell of the coming of Christ... which gives validity, to Christians, about the life of Christ and His being the Messiah.

 

[kramerfan86]

Maybe that was all Lot had to offer? Are you saying that bad things never happen? Should he have offered anything at all? What would the mob have done if he offered nothing? Are we so used to movies that have happy endings, that real life looks riduculous?

The sin of sodom was inhospitality? Lot refused to let the whole town share in being hospitable? Seems to me that Lot either condemned the city itself by not letting it be hospitable or the city just killed every one that came to town and Lot decided to protect his guest, ie just trying to be hospitable.

You are really trying to justify tossing up one's own children as offerings to an angry mob, seriously? I think most decent parents would offer themselves up before sacrificing their children.

 

[JollyRoger]

Justice and fairness were not particularly important lessons in the old testament.

Actually they are - it is just that some the churches teach the Genesis version of the destruction of the towns rather at the expense of teaching the prophets:

Ezekiel 16:49-50

49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.

 

[asbestos]

It would suck to have to answer up to God that you did nothing to defend his angels on judgment day...

On that note, Lot ought to have offered himself up for anal rape instead of his daughters.

 

[kramerfan86]

Actually they are - it is just that some the churches teach the Genesis version of the destruction of the towns rather at the expense of teaching the prophets:

Ezekiel 16:49-50

49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.

Its still unjust collective punishment.

 

[JollyRoger]

Its still unjust collective punishment.

I know - just for not looking out for the collective good at that.

 

[kochman]

You are really trying to justify tossing up one's own children as offerings to an angry mob, seriously? I think most decent parents would offer themselves up before sacrificing their children.

Well, there were a few choices... but letting angels get got on your watch, probably not a good resume bullet.

Really though, in the end, they didn't take the daughters, so what would have stopped them from forcing the angels to do their bidding? They were a big crowd of raging perverts (rapists)...

So, what stopped them from some sort of satisfaction? Angel? Daughter? Lot?

You guys are taking the story to literally.

 

[kramerfan86]

Well, there were a few choices... but letting angels get got on your watch, probably not a good resume bullet.

Really though, in the end, they didn't take the daughters, so what would have stopped them from forcing the angels to do their bidding? They were a big crowd of raging perverts (rapists)...

So, what stopped them from some sort of satisfaction? Angel? Daughter? Lot?

You guys are taking the story to literally.

The dude offered his own children up for suffering, even if just a parable its a terrible parable.

 

[kochman]

Well, talk to the authors...
It is what it is, take something from it, or just hate it... your prerogative.

 

[kramerfan86]

There really is nothing positive to take from it. Coward offers up his own children as meat sacrifices, God razes an entire city when there is no way every citizen was committing crimes worthy of death, and as a nice garbage cherry on top Lot's wife gets destroyed. Only thing to be taken from it is that hopefully the old testament is a bunch of rubbish or most of humanity that has ever lived is likely boned.

 

[kochman]

There really is nothing positive to take from it. Coward offers up his own children as meat sacrifices, God razes an entire city when there is no way every citizen was committing crimes worthy of death, and as a nice garbage cherry on top Lot's wife gets destroyed. Only thing to be taken from it is that hopefully the old testament is a bunch of rubbish or most of humanity that has ever lived is likely boned.

Every message doesn't have to be blatantly positive to be potent.
Sometimes, life sucks.

Again, you are looking at one part... he offered up his daughter, and insisting it is fact... while you are saying at the same time, another part, that EVERYONE was bad, is not true under any circumstances.

The message I get from it? Don't live in an area surrounded by raging A-holes, you may find yourself doing somethings that suck to survive.

 

[kramerfan86]

The old testament is full of laughable injustices, why exactly isnt it hypocritical to take both the injustice and the fact lot is a raging coward as fact? If the old testament isnt fact perhaps they shouldnt have included it with the supposedly factual new testament.

 

[kochman]

The old testament is full of laughable injustices, why exactly isnt it hypocritical to take both the injustice and the fact lot is a raging coward as fact? If the old testament isnt fact perhaps they shouldnt have included it with the supposedly factual new testament.

Again, talk to the authors...
Sorry it bothers you so much... I suggest you get over it.

 

[kramerfan86]

Get over it? This is one of the key passages used to justify treating homosexuals as second class citizens. So long as christians want to make a segment of the population suffer over this garbage passage its worthy of attention. Trust me, Id much rather this passage was ignored as the rubbish it is, but unfortunately it is not.