When will you classify China as a superpower?

Winner said:
Depends. European culture may be younger, but it had spread over most of the world and influenced practically all other cultures. China has always been introspective, focused on itself. That said, it had influenced many countries around it - Japan, Korea, Vietnam etc. - nobody is denying it, but I don't think it had influenced the world as much as Europe.
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Probably not, but China is only one country, Europe is many, and China hasstill maintained its gigantic cultural standing (apparently it's fame hasnt made its way to Australia, but its safe to say the rest of the world is well aware of it) despite the fact that China has been, well, in turmoil for a long time while Europe has prospered and conquered.
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
Probably not, but China is only one country, Europe is many, and China hasstill maintained its gigantic cultural standing (apparently it's fame hasnt made its way to Australia, but its safe to say the rest of the world is well aware of it) despite the fact that China has been, well, in turmoil for a long time while Europe has prospered and conquered.
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The strength of Chinese culture is a result of its large population and centralized government. It is its introspective nature what prevented it from spreading globally. Europeans were, after some time, ready to treat people who adopted their culture as more or less their equals (or at least treated them much better than the unassimilated natives), while Chinese culture requires you to be... well, Chinese, to fit in.

If I moved to China, learned to speak the language fluently and adopted their customs, religion and traditions, I'd still be only a tall round-eyed barbarian in the eyes of most native Chinese.

In other words, it's much easier to assimilate into Western culture, which partly explains why it spreads so well.
 
Wikipedia said:
A superpower is a state with a leading position in the international system and the ability to influence events and its own interests and project power on a worldwide scale to protect those interests
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i don't see any mention of quality of life or culture :confused:

by that definition surely china is already a superpower.
 
Winner said:
The strength of Chinese culture is a result of its large population and centralized government. It is its introspective nature what prevented it from spreading globally. Europeans were, after some time, ready to treat people who adopted their culture as more or less their equals (or at least treated them much better than the unassimilated natives), while Chinese culture requires you to be... well, Chinese, to fit in.

If I moved to China, learned to speak the language fluently and adopted their customs, religion and traditions, I'd still be only a tall round-eyed barbarian in the eyes of most native Chinese.

In other words, it's much easier to assimilate into Western culture, which partly explains why it spreads so well.
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It didnt spread globally, but in terms of amount of people it spread to, it's influence has been enormous. IIRC (and I'm not claiming to be an expert here at all), pretty much all EastAsian culture is at the least partially based on Chinese.

Both cultures have been enormously infulential, you & me could argue the finer points forever, but Bast's contention is utterly ridiculous by any set of standards.
 
“China is not a superpower, nor will she ever seek to be one. If one day China should change her color and turn into a superpower, if she too should play the tyrant in the world, and everywhere subject others to her bullying, aggression and exploitation, the people of the world should identify her as social-imperialism, expose it, oppose it and work together with the Chinese people to overthrow it.” Deng Xiaoping.

I don't know how the leaders in China obey those words now or in the future. Hope they will stick to it.
 
Camikaze said:
Why? It has a strong influence over events, and as such, can project power.
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You can say that about most countries, what matters is how much power it can project. The answer is "not enough".

RedRalphWiggum said:
It didnt spread globally, but in terms of amount of people it spread to, it's influence has been enormous. IIRC (and I'm not claiming to be an expert here at all), pretty much all EastAsian culture is at the least partially based on Chinese.
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Which is exactly what I said in the previous post... My point is that Chinese culture has never had such a global impact as the European-exported Western culture.

RedRalphWiggum said:
All it's really missing by that definition is a decent Navy. and by all accounts thats on its way.
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It will take a loooooooong time for China to build capacities comparable to what the Americans have at their disposal. China will remain to be a regional power for the foreseeable future.
 
For me is China superpower since 1945, communist one since 1971 (permanent member of UN Security Council)
 


Until China's bar approaches the US's bar, I'm going to continue comparing it to Japan, Germany, France and the UK, rather than to a genuine superpower like the USA.
 
Winner said:
You can say that about most countries, what matters is how much power it can project. The answer is "not enough".
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A few instances:
* Foreign investment. Chinese foreign investment in foreign countries is exceptionally strong. For instance, the Australian government just had to block a $19 bn bid for a large chunk of Rio Tinto by Chinalco. IIRC, South America is reliant on Chinese investment.
* Economics in general. Australia, for example, is screwed without China. If China was to decide to not involve itself with the Australian economy at all, it would only be affected in a minor way, whereas Australia's economy would go down the tube.
* Environmental policy. 'If China doesn't sign it, neither will we.' You could take it as being America's power projection, but it is China's decision that projects itself so much on the world, in terms of environmental policy.
* Asian hegemony. No one can do anything strong in Asia (possibly the most important continent in the world, or at least becoming it) without China's tacit approval. For instance, NK. If China had not supported NK over the past decades, then it would not have survived for as long as it has.
 
Winner said:
If I moved to China, learned to speak the language fluently and adopted their customs, religion and traditions, I'd still be only a tall round-eyed barbarian in the eyes of most native Chinese.
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Are you a walking giant squid? If so, you rightly fear for your life.
 
Winner said:
It will take a loooooooong time for China to build capacities comparable to what the Americans have at their disposal. China will remain to be a regional power for the foreseeable future.
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No, thats not true. It dosent have to be equal to the USN (the Soviet navy never was, never even close), to be able to project decent power around the world. Its not going to be that long at all. they may never catch up with the yanks, but that dosent mean their navy cannot project power.
 
RedRalphWiggum said:
No, thats not true. It dosent have to be equal to the USN (the Soviet navy never was, never even close), to be able to project decent power around the world. Its not going to be that long at all. they may never catch up with the yanks, but that dosent mean their navy cannot project power.
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Be realistic for a while and read the context - every country has some basic power projection capability; for exampe my country has about 500 troops in Afghanistan fighting Taleban, training the local soldiers and running a Province Reconstruction Team. Does it mean we are a great power? No.

China needs a real and relevant power projection capacity, not just a few ships and lots of talk. When China obtains the ability to send 300,000 soldiers to South America to depose a government in Columbia and occupy the country for 10 years, WHILE maintaining a capacity to send another 100,000 to another conflict in Syria, then we can have a talk about this again.

As of now, China could only hope to depose some dictator in a small African country, which is something that even the Czech Rep. could do with some luck :)
 
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