Which civs are best suited for adopting Commerce?

[Athenaeum]

I think Venice is hands down pretty obvious.

However on hardest difficulties (Immortal, Deity) is there any other civ for whom it is advisable to adopt Commerce?

Let's assume that the civ in question is fairly strong in culture during the Medieval Era and can complete most of Commerce before Renaissance Era. They also might have time to go back and finish Commerce before Ideology. Basically the point is to assume that Commerce would only pose minimal interference with Rationalism and Ideology.


I feel like Arabia and the Dutch would be the next best-suited for Commerce, if anybody. Both of them are luxury traders and have other strengths suited for commerce. Dutch have the Sea Beggar which can be used to steal gold and buy landschneckts. Arabia is going to have a lot of Caravans which could benefit from wagon trains.



Would you try to go down Commerce to some extent as one of these two civs if you were playing an Immortal or Deity file?

 

[Myth and Legend]

can complete most of Commerce before Renaissance Era

That would mean you were slow to reach the Renaissance, not that you had exceptional culture. Anyone who wants to warmonger or do land based trade routes would benefit from it. Arabia is a natural choice IMO.

 

[LordBalkoth]

Anyone conquering a lot wants to do it -- both for the immense road savings (the 2 gpt Caravan bonus is irrelevant), 25% discount on buying things, 1 gpt more from trading posts, and most importantly the 2 extra happiness per luxury.

Other than that, people going Freedom and Science Victory want it for cheaper Spaceship parts.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

Poland. Though to be fair Poland is overpowered and has many more social policy options than other civs, not just commerce.

It's possible for Poland to finish a starting tree, commerce and rationalism before ideologies, meaning that you don't have the opportunity cost of no rationalism, which is often the downside of full commerce. Since arguably the best benefit of commerce is the +2 happiness per lux, it's often important to finish it at some point.

Poland's UU upgrades from the Landsknecht and is a brutally fast damaging and pillaging machine.

 

[Mesix]

I take Commerce anytime I am going for a Science VC (if I am also going Freedom). The reason is that the benefits of Big Ben along with the policy to reduce purchasing costs in all cities makes SS components very cheap. There is no need to build SS components if you can buy them all.

 

[Athenaeum]

The only thing I can see in Commerce that would be directly helpful to warmongering is landschneckts. All social policy trees offer some increase in happiness.

 

[claudiupb]

And more money. And cheaper roads so you can build a lot of roads.

The science from money buildings is also a plus, since puppets prioritize those.

Landschneckts are weak (since they upgrade to lancers), but they do have the advantage that can be used in the turn they were bought, you can do some interesting stuff with enough money.

The happiness is a major plus, since out of all the classical and later SP trees, the happiness from commerce does not require you to do anything. Patronage requires alliances with City States, Exploration requires coastal buildings, and Aesthetics and Rationalism don't give any happiness at all. For warmongering, happiness may become a major issue.

 

[HazyAK]

I play as America and like to fill up commerce after opening patronage. I use my extra gold to warmonger after the Renaissance when I open up Minutemen. Filling out patronage and using city states to control (or influence) world congress. In my latest game I rushed the forbidden palace with my GE with great results.


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[consentient]

Commerce is usually my 2nd tree. It has so much going for it. Highly underrated. Cheaper purchasing, chance to build Big Ben, money saved on roads (great when going Domination), faster Great Merchants, etc..

But the best thing about it is Protectionism. Your happiness problems are gone forever.

 

[Athenaeum]

And more money. And cheaper roads so you can build a lot of roads.

The science from money buildings is also a plus, since puppets prioritize those.

Landschneckts are weak (since they upgrade to lancers), but they do have the advantage that can be used in the turn they were bought, you can do some interesting stuff with enough money.

The happiness is a major plus, since out of all the classical and later SP trees, the happiness from commerce does not require you to do anything. Patronage requires alliances with City States, Exploration requires coastal buildings, and Aesthetics and Rationalism don't give any happiness at all. For warmongering, happiness may become a major issue.

The landschneckt is also half the cost of Pikemen, has no movement cost to pillage and can steal gold when attacking cities. Do those things not factor in? It can practically pay itself off with Big Ben + Mercantilism.

 

[z284pwr]

Commerce is usually my 2nd tree. It has so much going for it. Highly underrated. Cheaper purchasing, chance to build Big Ben, money saved on roads (great when going Domination), faster Great Merchants, etc..

But the best thing about it is Protectionism. Your happiness problems are gone forever.

This.

Protectionism is just awesome. Definitely one of the best policies in the game.
Netherlands with a lot of Polders is one Civ that can benefit with Commerce for sure.

 

[johnnybaseball]

I found purchasing landschneckts (or however you spell it) to be really helpful in a Persia domination game I played recently. I had Chichen Itza and was on a long golden age, so I had lots of gold, and I got the policy in commerce reducing purchasing costs, so I was able to just pump out tons of them and send them into enemy territory to pillage the heck out of their lands, without having to worry about whether they got killed or not. But they are hard to kill when they can pillage three times in a single turn!

 

[reddishrecue]

Most civs are best suited for commerce. I recommend commerce to any civ.

 

[joncnunn]

Most civs are best suited for commerce. I recommend commerce to any civ.

Given how much more powerful Rationalism is though, I can't recommend Commerce except as filler policies while waiting to be allowed into Rationalism, and even then just the right side.

 

[Navelgazer]

Morocco loves Commerce, for all the obvious reasons, and the lack of a Happiness generator directly in the tree is kind of meaningless when Gold=CS=Extra Luxuries. Commerce is an excellent tree. It's just that Rationalism is right there and is basically mandatory.

 

[Redaxe]

The cheaper Landsknect is best used late game as fodder. Surprising how few mention this- think about it do you want the AI focusing their rocket artillery & bombers at your rank 4 tanks that is worth about 1200 gold or a cheap pikeman worth about 140 gold.
The Tank might take 3 hits so that's a cost of about 400 gold per hit so the Landskecht is best for keeping the AI off your veteran units.

 

[consentient]

Given how much more powerful Rationalism is though, I can't recommend Commerce except as filler policies while waiting to be allowed into Rationalism, and even then just the right side.

You're right for peaceful games, but Commerce > Rationalism for Domination.

 

[beetle]

You're right for peaceful games, but Commerce > Rationalism for Domination.

Did you mention this in your Domination for Noobs thread? When opening Honor, I knew of the HCA synergy. I slipped back to Rationalism when trying Liberty 3-city domination. I will have to reload to fix that!

 

[reddishrecue]

Given how much more powerful Rationalism is though, I can't recommend Commerce except as filler policies while waiting to be allowed into Rationalism, and even then just the right side.

Yeah, well that too I guess if your civilization is happy enough because the rationalism opener only works with happiness.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Commerce is usually my 2nd tree. It has so much going for it. Highly underrated. Cheaper purchasing, chance to build Big Ben, money saved on roads (great when going Domination), faster Great Merchants, etc..

But the best thing about it is Protectionism. Your happiness problems are gone forever.

The problem with protectionism is that you pay for that power, in turns waiting to get it. It's the mandatory 5th policy in commerce and the merchant bonus feels like dead weight for a while.

That said, I still like the tree, along with autocracy it's the best sustained conquest tree for sure. I've had games with terrible unhappiness from ideological pressure (36 unhappiness) but commerce/autocracy overpowered it and I had close to 20 happiness on 20+ cities.

For SV games I think rationalism is still much better, because you're usually more science capped than anything else and the ability to get more science *and* faith buy great scientists really pushes rationalism up as a priority pick in SV games. When you're looking to end the game with something like arty or anything before, however, commerce is stronger outright IMO. The big ben + commerce + auto synergy is crazy.