Terrance888
Discord Reigns
I'm still a Teenager.
Also, I started TerraNES when I was 14.
Also, I started TerraNES when I was 14.
While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses
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erez87
Lord of Random
And it was loads of fun. And i was way beyond my 20'sI'm still a Teenager.
Also, I started TerraNES when I was 14.
North King
blech
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Yeah, but I'd rather this forum not exist by and for teenagers alone. Which is sort of the fear I alluded to above -- if we restrict moderating to "people with the spare time," one could reasonably extrapolate that this means "people in high school." While some people mod reasonably well in high school (perhaps including myself; definitely including Terrance), most do not, and they (and former I) were definitely several cuts below our college selves. Most people, I think, have the time to invest in playing when they grow older; I'm not sure that they have the time to invest in moderating. This might lead to a forum of NESes run by teenagers for an older audience, which would not be healthy -- it's already a little uncomfortable for me that people know quite a bit more about certain elements of the stuff that I'm modeling than I do; I can't imagine how someone with only an AP World History level of background would feel.
I'd be curious to hear from EQ, who, despite the frankly unnerving level of criticism he gets through certain channels, is the only person I know of who has moderated successfully well into his adulthood.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
Wait, you're that old?
Wow, that makes certain statements magnitudes more creepy. >.>
Wow, that makes certain statements magnitudes more creepy. >.>
Symphony D.
Deity
la·zy adjective \ˈlā-zē\
: not liking to work hard or to be active
: not having much activity : causing people to feel that they do not want to be active
: moving slowly
"Let's define this enterprise in such a way as that anything can be construed as being one including every RPG and boardgame ever created."
ChessNES: Will you be a pawn, or a king? Coming 2015!
Enjoy continuing to look, bro. I'll enjoy doing things I enjoy.
scam noun \ˈskam\
: a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people
: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation <an insurance scam>
And no, you're interested in manipulating me into wasting both your time and mine, so I assume you're some sort of sadomasochist.
erez87
Lord of Random
I'm sure we have room for both teenagery NESes as well as adult ones.
lol. I'm 27. And yes that is those statements point usually. How long ago was it anyway?
North King
blech
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You missed the point of my post. I'm not worried about teenagers running NESes. I'm worried that no one but teenagers will ever have the time to run them.
erez87
Lord of Random
"not liking to work hard or to be active" - does that mean yo fail at EVERYTHING that requires hard work? (I doubt that) Because if it is only moding, than it isn't laziness, it's the moding.
Yes, NESing is very widely defined. Are you shocked? RoddyVR boardgames were NESes, to me. And cheeseNES sounds wonderful, when can we expect it? Oh damn I just noticed it's ChessNES. Agh. I hate chess. (Not that cheese I like)
I do what I enjoy to
"a fraudulent or deceptive act" - but it isn't. You aren't being deceptive or fraudulent. You aren't MEANING to take away our time and effort only to kill the NES. I hope.
"sadomasochist" - I wonder if that is true in regard to NESing.
erez87
Lord of Random
Why? You are running them. People still run NESes. There is nothing to worry about, remember, we all STARTED at teenagers. Before worrying we need at least one generation to pass and fail moding as adults... And I think we are doing Ok for now. In fact I think we have more adult NESes running smoothly than teenagery ones. I guess that's kind of part of the point too.
mrrandomplayer
Hopeless Situation Warrior
Us teenagers will take over NES!
That also depends on our schedules. Last year, I went to a school where I was traveling a lot and had no Internet while traveling. This year, I have a much freer schedule, but I will be gone for all of July, so some of us teenagers have less time to run NESes, partially because of school-related commitments like finals and trips.
Symphony D.
Deity
Most things. I'm not really interested in discussing my psychology and life history with you.
No, I just entirely reject the definition.
There is an implicit and unspoken social contract undertaken when a game begins that if the players are involved the mod will be too, and vice versa. When one side or the other fails, that's a breach of trust in that contract, and of that contract itself. Some people will claim a moderator doesn't owe players anything, and vice versa, which is so much crap as otherwise people wouldn't get nearly so upset about games ending or people not sending orders. It's very clearly a two-way street, it's just not spelled out officially most of the time.
Entering into that contract knowing full well you are likely to breach it is effectively fraud:
fraud noun \ˈfrȯd\
: the crime of using dishonest methods to take something valuable from another person
And what you're taking is their time and effort. Why you failed to meet your end of the contract is ultimately irrelevant to the fact that you did, and you were well aware that you were likely going to do so. Fraud by way of negligence is still fraud. The fact that I am sitting here saying "I have no interest or desire in doing this because I know with a high certainty what the outcome will be," makes me morally scrupulous while you are effectively actively demanding to be defrauded of your time. Again, this is a social contract, not a legal one, so the fallout is grumbling and complaining and not lawsuits, but that doesn't really change what's happening.
Surprisingly, people that often breach contract are looked at more dubiously the next time they try and mod (or play) and eventually develop reputations as flakes! I wonder why???
erez87
Lord of Random
understandable. Don't think you are the only one who feels that way (studying to the test on Thursday or debate stuff on the NES forum? Hmmmm). I still doubt it. You always seemed rather successful in education matters to me.
You choice. NESing of course was here before you... Which brings me to...
Jeez man! A NES is a game! Not a contract! I get what you mean, but man you are taking this way too seriously and extremely. Why?! I mean I take NESing far too emotionally (because it used to be one of the only sources of fun in my life probably).. But contract? Fraud? "morally scrupulous"? Come on again! You just failed at managing some game on the internet. Don't take it so hard... I hope that's just for the sake of argument, and not really how you look at NESing.
North King
blech
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I'm running them for the moment -- but I am acutely aware that when RL gets more hazardous I tend to slow down or stop altogether.
As for the second part, see below:
Look, I'm not saying that I think teenagers are stupid or inferior moderators or shouldn't be moderating an NES at all, and as a person who had horrible time constraints through high school, I know what you're feeling. As I've already stated, I think all moderators should be encouraged.
What I meant to say -- and I thought I said -- is this: we all evolve over time; and usually we improve; moderators will become better as they get older. Similarly, the demands of my playerbase have gotten more and more sophisticated as they get older and more knowledgeable. There is absolutely nothing at all that's wrong with simpler, faster, funner NESes, but if that's all there is, then NESing will lose the people whoa re only attracted to the more complex NESes. This is not intrinsically a bad thing. I don't think NESing should have to cater to my whims at all. I don't think people should be force fed NESes like my own. I'm not worried for the future of NESing here -- I'm worried for my future with NESing.
Symphony D.
Deity
Suppose Blizzard permanently shut down all WoW servers tomorrow for some reason. How angry do you suppose the playerbase would be? Why would they take it so seriously? It's just a game.
Any activity that results in large quantities of time being invested can and in fact probably should be taken seriously, or at least be able to be seriously discussed. The nature of the activity is irrelevant. The fact that so much time can be invested makes the activity serious in and of itself.
North King
blech
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Good god I hate this stupid line of argument. Some (many) people derive fun from deep, complex simulations. Some of us, in other words, have fun by being serious. Symphony, and it happens, I too, have fun by investing a ton of effort into something. It is not yours to dictate to us how we enjoy our free time.
erez87
Lord of Random
People paid money for WoW. Of course they will be angry. Also Blizzard is a big company, you are a person playing with internet friends. There are big differences, mostly in the size of the matter.
Seriously discussed, of course, seriously taken into account sure. But actually going so far as to consider the game a contract and its death some sort of breach of contract? Should we also sue each other? That is a very extreme view. As deep and serious as the game may be, it can't be healthy to see them as... contracts in court.
I'll end with the most abused sentence from movies lately - why so serious?
NK -my point wasn't the depth of the game, I like deep games too. But the depth of how sym sees the games as contracts in court. That is extreme. I like deep GAMES, but they are still games, not law.
Seriously discussed, of course, seriously taken into account sure. But actually going so far as to consider the game a contract and its death some sort of breach of contract? Should we also sue each other? That is a very extreme view. As deep and serious as the game may be, it can't be healthy to see them as... contracts in court.
I'll end with the most abused sentence from movies lately - why so serious?
NK -my point wasn't the depth of the game, I like deep games too. But the depth of how sym sees the games as contracts in court. That is extreme. I like deep GAMES, but they are still games, not law.
North King
blech
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erez87
Lord of Random
It still seems like a very extreme view. Especially in our not so large community. If people would have seen failed NESes so hard... I doubt we would have lasted over a few months... Maybe you guys need to view it a little more like when we were teenagers, these are fun games to play, as deep and time consuming as they may get, and they should remain fun games to play. Not social contracts, not in the meaning of actual contracts.
North King
blech
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If someone starts a game and I join, they should expect me to invest time in it. If someone joins my NES, I expect them to invest time in it. If I join and invest time, they ought to invest time, too, and if someone invests time in my game, I ought to update, too. This is not a binding agreement, but it's one that should be observed.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
I completely agree with the Social Contract point of view. That said, if you are an "experimenting" you should make that clear from the start. I made a clear distinction between my experimental and long haul brand of NESes.
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