While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

[Azale]

American border enforcement keeps Mexican drug warriors in the black.

 

[Luckymoose]

American border enforcement keeps Mexican drug warriors in the black.

The GOP keeps drugs on our streets!

 

[Masada]

I dislike comparing violent crime rates between smaller countries and larger ones, population wise, because the numbers don't equate. You need to consider a few things. America has 320 million people, ten times Canada, and a whole sweeping array of social and economic problems Canada does not have. All of this contributes to violence rates, primarily driven by easy access to guns and not so easy access to financial stability or medical care.

You can just use like, you know, incidence rates per 100 000 population. A large part of my day, involves standardizing data from different sources and calculating these.

This is a key factor. The American South, for example, is diverse as all get out, in some regions it is literally 1/3rd White, Hispanic, and Black with median income begin well below national average, not to mention healthcare and education rates being pathetic. You can't make sweeping generalizations about the USA without understanding just how varied the USA is, region by region.

Sure, you can. The US is super violent even after adjusting for socioeconomic factors like income and education. About the only US region which might credibly be compared with my control group is New England which has a murder rate per 100 000 population of about 1.5. And even that's higher than the rate in my own Northern Territory which has a proportionally large, very poor and very poorly educated Indigenous population.

 

[Luckymoose]

You can just use like, you know, incidence rates per 100 000 population. A large part of my day, involves standardizing data from different sources and calculating these.


Sure, you can. The US is super violent even after adjusting for socioeconomic factors like income and education. About the only US region which might credibly be compared with my control group is New England which has a murder rate per 100 000 population of about 1.5. And even that's higher than the rate in my own Northern Territory which has a proportionally large, very poor and very poorly educated Indigenous population.

Yes, but do those people have access to healthcare for mental issues? Do they have superior social safety nets for when they have nothing? I think so, very much so indeed. You can't compare the two countries because the social and economic issues are deeper than you're thinking. Northern territory has 233k people and a population density nothing like the American South, which is closer to 100 million people. Hell, there are more African-Americans in my region of Georgia than there are people in that whole territory.

 

[Angst]

The point about healthcare and safety nets etc was my point exactly Lucky. Just fyi. I want the US to enjoy the same safety and benefits and prosperity that Denmark does.

 

[Luckymoose]

The point about healthcare and safety nets etc was my point exactly Lucky. Just fyi. I want the US to enjoy the same safety and benefits and prosperity that Denmark does.

Yes, and if we had those nets (we don't, and masada seems to believe that doesn't matter) we would have reduction in severe poverty and the ability to prevent or remove mentally unstable people from dense population centers where they can cause issues. We have a major problem in America, especially among the minorities, of a prison system that actively promotes criminal behavior in communities as an extension of itself. Australia doesn't have this. Canada doesn't have this. Europe does not have this.

This isn't proper demography, this is make believe.

 

[Amon Savag]

Sure, you can. The US is super violent even after adjusting for socioeconomic factors like income and education. About the only US region which might credibly be compared with my control group is New England which has a murder rate per 100 000 population of about 1.5. And even that's higher than the rate in my own Northern Territory which has a proportionally large, very poor and very poorly educated Indigenous population.

Perhaps we are the last warrior race of the west. MURKA!

 

[Angst]

Lucky you seem to have an issue with demography but in Denmark demography is used to underline the exact conclusions you're seeking yourself.

 

[North King]

Yes, and if we had those nets (we don't, and masada seems to believe that doesn't matter) we would have reduction in severe poverty and the ability to prevent or remove mentally unstable people from dense population centers where they can cause issues. We have a major problem in America, especially among the minorities, of a prison system that actively promotes criminal behavior in communities as an extension of itself. Australia doesn't have this. Canada doesn't have this. Europe does not have this.

This isn't proper demography, this is make believe.

Pretty sure Masada's demography is just highlighting what the lack of those things does, bro.

 

[Luckymoose]

Pretty sure Masada's demography is just highlighting what the lack of those things does, bro.

He specifically said that those groups as less disadvantaged than Australian minorities. Which is patently false.

 

[Masada]

Black income per capita - $18 102 in 2012 USD
Indigenous income per capita - $18 824 in 2011 AUD

Source: US Census Bureau 2012 American Community Survey and Australian Bureau of Statistics Census 2011.

Black unemployment - 10.7%
Indigenous unemployment - 17.1%

Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics June 2014 and 2011 Australian Bureau of Statistics Census 2011.

Black life expectancy at birth 2010 - males 71.8, females 78.0
Indigenous life expectancy at birth 2010-12 - males 69.1, females 73.7.

Source: Centre for Disease Control Health United States 2013 and Australian Bureau of Statistics Life Tables for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, 2010-2012

Yes, but do those people have access to healthcare for mental issues? Do they have superior social safety nets for when they have nothing? I think so, very much so indeed. You can't compare the two countries because the social and economic issues are deeper than you're thinking. Northern territory has 233k people and a population density nothing like the American South, which is closer to 100 million people. Hell, there are more African-Americans in my region of Georgia than there are people in that whole territory.

"I don't get how rates work"

Yes, and if we had those nets (we don't, and masada seems to believe that doesn't matter) we would have reduction in severe poverty and the ability to prevent or remove mentally unstable people from dense population centers where they can cause issues. We have a major problem in America, especially among the minorities, of a prison system that actively promotes criminal behavior in communities as an extension of itself. Australia doesn't have this. Canada doesn't have this. Europe does not have this.

"Something something something we have problems among minorities!"

 

[Thlayli]

America has to accept a certain level of demographic sacrifice in return for freedom and liberty.

And given that crime stats have been improving for 20 years despite no major changes in welfare or gun control I don't see a problem with how we're doing things.

USA #1

 

[Angst]

wait wat masada are you sayin the blacks have no social issues

 

[Masada]

No, I'm saying that it's the most arrogant form of American exceptionalism to suppose that only American minorities have serious issues.

 

[Thlayli]

No, I'm saying that it's the most arrogant form of American exceptionalism to suppose that only American minorities have serious issues.

Agreed. If anything our minorities have got it better than any other nation's minorities.

Ain't like we're gonna see any Uighur Premier of China or Arab President of France in the next 50 years.

 

[Masada]

I doubt that.

 

[Luckymoose]

No, I'm saying that it's the most arrogant form of American exceptionalism to suppose that only American minorities have serious issues.

Ah, but no one said yours don't have serious issues, only you're misrepresenting them as a target group. Native American tribes are far more comparable to Australian Indigenous people on whole. I need to remind you that that household income statistic you quoted applies to more people than your entire country even has. Or how about the fact that you're not isolating for region, but using the entireity of the United States African American population, regardless of regional unemployment or income differences. Hmm, let's also try to forget that Australia has this giant healthcare system that provides service to households that Black Americans do not have access to without further reducing their income. You think the income or employment match out? Not even close when you consider how broad the American demographic spectrum is in comparison to the lack of government assistance our people get compared to yours. But let's forget about that and cry over how those Australians have it so bad.

 

[Thlayli]

I am honestly interested in finding out about a country where a nation's ethnic minorities are better treated or have more social and economic opportunities than in the United States.

Certainly not anywhere in Asia or the Middle East. And didn't they throw bananas at that black minister in the middle of Italy's assembly? Europeans are fairly sub-human in the way they often treat minorities.

Racism certainly still exists, but nowhere is it less relevant or less potent than in this great country of ours.

 

[North King]

Cause uh... we've totally moved on from racial divides? -_-

 

[Crezth]

And given that crime stats have been improving for 20 years despite no major changes in welfare or gun control I don't see a problem with how we're doing things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson's_paradox

Racism certainly still exists, but nowhere is it less relevant or less potent than in this great country of ours.

Only a conservative could be proud of being not as bad as 15th century monarchies and single-party socialist dictatorships.