Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Feel free to post other examples you can think of whether from businesses or government.
In the category of 'why didn't they tell us that before' and 'why don't they just do things differently'.
1. Minor one, but this always bugged me about my local courthouse (and may apply to other local courthouses), but when you get a copy of a marriage certificate you have to buy an 'original' ($20+) and then have the options for 'certified copies' ($3 each). Go back later for just another 'certified copy' and still have to buy an original before you can buy copies. It's like you have to predict ahead of time how many copies you'll need in your life.
2. Now the big one:
Wife gets naturalized and becomes a US citizen. Her daughter, since she's not 18 yet is automatically considered a US Citizen when her mother became one. Was casually told we could apply for an optional 'Certificate of Naturalization' for the daughter, but regardless the daughter IS a US citizen whether we get that certificate or not.
That's all fine and dandy. Both wife and daughter then got a US Passport months later, traveled overseas and returned. When applying for the passport the daughter's green card was confiscated since it is no longer valid with having a passport (wife gave up greencard when naturalized).
Go to Social Security office to update the wife's information with them (citizen now and not green card holder), and they don't accept my wife certificate of naturalization form to prove her daughter is a citizen. Now, we didn't bring the passport with*, maybe that would have worked, but reading the internet I've discovered a few things:
1. USCIS (immigration) decides who is a citizen.
2. State Department/Homeland Security issues the passports and will give you a passport if they feel you 'should' be a citizen.
3. So having passport does not technically mean you are a citizen.
Despite USCIS telling us we didn't really need the certificate (the daughter is a citizen), they may later simply say they don't know if she is since we don't have the certificate. Needless to say, we better have the certificate if years down the road something happens (like a lost passport, or she marries a foreigner or adopts a foreign child) and the certificate is demanded as proof, along with other normal processes like student loans, job applications, etc.. Some places don't want passport, they will only accept U.S. birth certificates or certificates of naturalization of themselves, not of their parent.**
My wife's naturalization filing fee was something like $600. The daughter's filing fee for the 'optional' form is over $1100. (and no, don't blame Trump, the fee doubled just before the election).
This would be an interesting situation if someone says the daughter is not considered a US citizen as China already accepted her US citizenship by voiding her Chinese passport and citizenship (China doesn't recognize dual-citizenship). 'World citizen'?
Main point:
Why doesn't USCIS and State Department get their act together and if one recognizes citizenship, the other one does too (passport is enough proof of citizenship). Or, you know, maybe just automatically issue a certificate of naturalization to all children of the naturalized citizen, when those children do automatically qualify (a child who immigrated with the now naturalized citizen at the same time, lives with the US citizen and US citizen parent(s) have full custody. A child born out of wedlock, turned 18 or did not immigrate with the mother the rules are more complicated or is not considered a citizen.)
*
Read another post on the internet from 2012 that when bringing the passport to the Social Security office (or was it USCIS?) without being issued a certificate of Naturalization the guy was accused of fraud and saying he couldn't have got a passport without the certificate. (despite this being commonplace as we did it and found many, many cases on the internet).
**
In the category of 'why didn't they tell us that before' and 'why don't they just do things differently'.
1. Minor one, but this always bugged me about my local courthouse (and may apply to other local courthouses), but when you get a copy of a marriage certificate you have to buy an 'original' ($20+) and then have the options for 'certified copies' ($3 each). Go back later for just another 'certified copy' and still have to buy an original before you can buy copies. It's like you have to predict ahead of time how many copies you'll need in your life.
2. Now the big one:
Wife gets naturalized and becomes a US citizen. Her daughter, since she's not 18 yet is automatically considered a US Citizen when her mother became one. Was casually told we could apply for an optional 'Certificate of Naturalization' for the daughter, but regardless the daughter IS a US citizen whether we get that certificate or not.
That's all fine and dandy. Both wife and daughter then got a US Passport months later, traveled overseas and returned. When applying for the passport the daughter's green card was confiscated since it is no longer valid with having a passport (wife gave up greencard when naturalized).
Go to Social Security office to update the wife's information with them (citizen now and not green card holder), and they don't accept my wife certificate of naturalization form to prove her daughter is a citizen. Now, we didn't bring the passport with*, maybe that would have worked, but reading the internet I've discovered a few things:
1. USCIS (immigration) decides who is a citizen.
2. State Department/Homeland Security issues the passports and will give you a passport if they feel you 'should' be a citizen.
3. So having passport does not technically mean you are a citizen.
Despite USCIS telling us we didn't really need the certificate (the daughter is a citizen), they may later simply say they don't know if she is since we don't have the certificate. Needless to say, we better have the certificate if years down the road something happens (like a lost passport, or she marries a foreigner or adopts a foreign child) and the certificate is demanded as proof, along with other normal processes like student loans, job applications, etc.. Some places don't want passport, they will only accept U.S. birth certificates or certificates of naturalization of themselves, not of their parent.**
My wife's naturalization filing fee was something like $600. The daughter's filing fee for the 'optional' form is over $1100. (and no, don't blame Trump, the fee doubled just before the election).
This would be an interesting situation if someone says the daughter is not considered a US citizen as China already accepted her US citizenship by voiding her Chinese passport and citizenship (China doesn't recognize dual-citizenship). 'World citizen'?
Main point:
Why doesn't USCIS and State Department get their act together and if one recognizes citizenship, the other one does too (passport is enough proof of citizenship). Or, you know, maybe just automatically issue a certificate of naturalization to all children of the naturalized citizen, when those children do automatically qualify (a child who immigrated with the now naturalized citizen at the same time, lives with the US citizen and US citizen parent(s) have full custody. A child born out of wedlock, turned 18 or did not immigrate with the mother the rules are more complicated or is not considered a citizen.)
*
Read another post on the internet from 2012 that when bringing the passport to the Social Security office (or was it USCIS?) without being issued a certificate of Naturalization the guy was accused of fraud and saying he couldn't have got a passport without the certificate. (despite this being commonplace as we did it and found many, many cases on the internet).
**
