Worst wonder?

[bhavv]

I sometimes play religious economy early, but by the time I get to Philosophy (prerequisite for Angkor Watt), I am usually in the heat of the race to discover Liberalism, and so am more interested in generating Great Scientists to help bulb Education or Liberalism rather than get more Great Prophets. Sometimes I build it anyway just to pick up the 8 culture points, but usually not.

You can settle great prophets / build shrines and run a higher science rate instead of bulging to liberalism, plus Angkor way makes every priest specialist generate 2 hammers and 1 gold.

Ankgor wat is more for boosting production under a gold focused religious economy, when played right you don't need to focus on great scientists. You can use the extra gold generated to run a much higher science rate. I've tried both great prophet and great merchant focused farms and find them to be much more powerful than bulbing liberalism with GSs. The only problem is that on Immortal / Diety, getting the required wonders built is very hard, though I have been managing to get Oracle and AP built on several playthroughs with Justinian on Immortal difficulty, but mostly due to abusing his imperialistic trait to save loads of early game production and get cities built faster. I don't think I can manage the same with Saladin, maybe I can with rameses, but obelisks are meh.

Angkor wat is the most fun when playing unrestricted leaders and Ramesses or Hatshepsut of Arabia because the bonus priest slots never expire (Madrassas are too much better than Obelisks, not just two extra permanent priest slots, but also more culture).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The problem with non-GS farming on high difficulties is that the AI still techs the non-lib path so you are still best of researching the lib path and trading it -----> but only in games where you actually have the trade partners.

Without the trade partners, it's time to bulb astronomy or use alternative GPP to get an edge otherwise, although the GS approach still works. One of the reasons it's so popular is that it works consistently and effectively...very much the opposite of the space elevator where its only consistent thing is failure.

 

[Riflin'Joe]

Angkor Wat is fine, just don't expect it to be the centrepiece of your game. (There is no such thing as a "priest economy"!)

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

You can settle great prophets / build shrines and run a higher science rate instead of bulging to liberalism, plus Angkor way makes every priest specialist generate 2 hammers and 1 gold.

Ankgor wat is more for boosting production under a gold focused religious economy, when played right you don't need to focus on great scientists. You can use the extra gold generated to run a much higher science rate. I've tried both great prophet and great merchant focused farms and find them to be much more powerful than bulbing liberalism with GSs. The only problem is that on Immortal / Diety, getting the required wonders built is very hard, though I have been managing to get Oracle and AP built on several playthroughs with Justinian on Immortal difficulty, but mostly due to abusing his imperialistic trait to save loads of early game production and get cities built faster. I don't think I can manage the same with Saladin, maybe I can with rameses, but obelisks are meh.

Angkor wat is the most fun when playing unrestricted leaders and Ramesses or Hatshepsut of Arabia because the bonus priest slots never expire (Madrassas are too much better than Obelisks, not just two extra permanent priest slots, but also more culture).

My point is that, when I am in the middle of the race to Liberalism, a Great Scientist to bulb Education/Liberalism is more immediately useful than another Great Prophet. In fact, it can become the difference between winning or losing the Liberalism race.

Angor Watt is not difficult to build if you have Stone and are Industrious (like Ramesses). That's why I will sometimes do it to pick up the culture points. My economy at that stage of the game is usually good enough that I don't need to run priests for gold. Better to stick with scientists until I am ready to shut down the science and run 100% cultural slider.

 

[jokulmorder]

My point is that, when I am in the middle of the race to Liberalism, a Great Scientist to bulb Education/Liberalism is more immediately useful than another Great Prophet. In fact, it can become the difference between winning or losing the Liberalism race.

Angor Watt is not difficult to build if you have Stone and are Industrious (like Ramesses). That's why I will sometimes do it to pick up the culture points. My economy at that stage of the game is usually good enough that I don't need to run priests for gold. Better to stick with scientists until I am ready to shut down the science and run 100% cultural slider.

you can bulb the paper->edu->lib with prophets too. just get theo and the aesthetics line.

 

[Antilogic]

Angkor Wat is fine, just don't expect it to be the centrepiece of your game. (There is no such thing as a "priest economy"!)

There is if you call it that. It's just not on the top list of economic strategies used in the game.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

you can bulb the paper->edu->lib with prophets too. just get theo and the aesthetics line.

I have never had that happen in 4 years of playing the game. Maybe that happens in BTS. I play Warlords. Typically, if I get a Great Prophet at that stage of the game, he can't bulb anything except Civil Service or Divine Right.

 

[bhavv]

Angkor Wat is fine, just don't expect it to be the centrepiece of your game. (There is no such thing as a "priest economy"!)

There is a such thing as a 'religious economy', and they can become pretty decent, the Angkor wat can be used alongside this strategy to boost production from priests.

Usually it involves building Oracle, AP, Angkor Wat, Spiral Minaret and University of Sankore, with other Great Prophet wonders being optional, and founding religions, building shrines / settling great prophets for the gold boost.

Its just weaker than building a Great Scientst or Great Merchant farm howerver.

you can bulb the paper->edu->lib with prophets too. just get theo and the aesthetics line.

I wasnt aware of this either, it could be very useful alongside using Oracle to buld Theology.

 

[jokulmorder]

I have never had that happen in 4 years of playing the game. Maybe that happens in BTS. I play Warlords. Typically, if I get a Great Prophet at that stage of the game, he can't bulb anything except Civil Service or Divine Right.

yeah i meant that you to branch down to theo; you still have to go for the CS route

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

yeah i meant that you to branch down to theo; you still have to go for the CS route

I almost never do that. I go straight from Theo to Paper, build Sankore in my Science city, then go for Education and get a GS (or two) as I am going along toward Liberalism. I usually get Civil Service and Compass in trades. I think I will try playing it your way in my next game to see how it works out, but I am skeptical.

 

[jokulmorder]

I almost never do that. I go straight from Theo to Paper, build Sankore in my Science city, then go for Education and get a GS (or two) as I am going along toward Liberalism. I usually get Civil Service and Compass in trades. I think I will try playing it your way in my next game to see how it works out, but I am skeptical.

oh no i almost never do it myself, i'm well aware how weak priests are and that prophets are no GS, but i was just saying you could do it. getting a late prophet from oracle pollution or from something else/conquest can be put to use though

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

oh no i almost never do it myself, i'm well aware how weak priests are and that prophets are no GS, but i was just saying you could do it. getting a late prophet from oracle pollution or from something else/conquest can be put to use though

For me, the exception is when I am trying to get a Great Prophet to bulb Divine Right and found Islam as my third religion. In situations like that, a GP is better than a GS if you are playing for Cultural Victory.

 

[Grimith]

From my own gaming experience - and with the backing of posts written two years ago by r_rolo1, TheMeInTeam, Dhoomstriker, and others - I can't fathom any wonder being worse than Beyond the Sword's Space Elevator. Our opinions are all colored different by our personal gaming experiences, but, objectively, the BtS SE - all the way out at Robotics - does so little for so much.

The Hagia Sophia, however, is a real close second for me, followed shortly thereafter by Chichen Itza.

Completely irrelevant: I can't believe CivFanatics guilt-tripped me into posting. "Hello Grimith, it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution, or participate in a discussion in any one of our forums?" D:

 

[RD-BH]

Space Elevator.

 

[Lord Parkin]

I'm amazed that four people voted for the Mausoleum... I'd easily consider that one of the best.

I'd probably go with Chichen Itza as the worst one myself - it can be a good build for the fail gold if you have Stone, but I certainly wouldn't prioritize it. It has its applications, mostly as a slight deterrent against people attacking you in multiplayer... but overall it's underwhelming.

Looking at the other top votes in the poll:

The Space Elevator (83) does occasionally has a use depending on the tech path, but comes rather late.

The Internet (35) is the cornerstone of many victories/defeats in multiplayer games which last to this age. I'm surprised it managed third place, but I guess it isn't so useful in single player.

The Hagia Sophia (29) is certainly a bit underwhelming for its price, though the Great Engineer points are nice if you have Marble.

Shwedagon Paya (21) is really more of a niche wonder, but it can be quite useful sometimes... for instance, when you lack a religion and are isolated (or playing Always War).

Angkor Wat (17) seems to be nice but not particularly useful in most games.

Cristo Redentor (14) is another surprise... I'd definitely consider it one of the stronger wonders in the game. Not sure why it has so many votes actually.

Anyway, interesting to check out.

 

[UnforcedError]

I voted for the Space Elevator. Chichen Itza can be at least of some marginal use if you capture it.

It's indeed funny that great wonders like the Mausoleum or Christo Redentor got so many votes. And the Internet is certainly a niche wonder but it can be useful on the higher difficulty levels to get back into the tech race.

 

[bestbrian]

The Internet is a project, not a wonder, and never should have even been on the list. The votes for it can be safely ignored.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The Space Elevator (83) does occasionally has a use depending on the tech path, but comes rather late.

I would be amused if you could come up with a single game where teching robotics and building space elevator actually makes the ship launch faster instead of more slowly. In previous challenge threads, nobody has actually done it, making the pursuit of this wonder a consistent net *negative* for the one purpose it was intended. This wonder absolutely should be #1 by a wide margin.

Internet isn't even a wonder lol. It can be good though.

Anyway chichen itza > space elevator because in rare scenarios building it can actually be useful. Those scenarios are more common than the ones where space elevator is "supposedly" worthwhile .

 

[Nick Carpathia]

The MoM got 4 votes. 1% of the total. No one hates the thing

 

[Archon_Wing]

Space Elevator is awesome. 2 GPP for a scientist is exactly what I need when I am already at the end of the tech tree, wasted beakers to come here and could have launched anyways without pissing away all the hammers into it.

It's an awesome troll wonder, me thinks.