Communicating with Barbarians.

i think their should be some kind of Option, where the player can somehow communicate with barbarian villages, either to pay them to attack a city, or area, to to pay them to have some sort of cease fire... and paying can be in all forms, either by goods of gold, or even knowledges and units.
putting in mind that they can betray you if the other side pays more...

I guess you can say they would be an interesting feature in the game. A minature civilization or a band of mercenaries of some sort.

yeah, i mean barbarians are probably the least developed feature in the game, since CIV2, up till now, they didnt change that much, and perhaps they have their own religion, own troops, etc...

How about you could have something like the mercenaries in RFC and then they can become a civ if they settle down. They also should be able to gain Techs, because in history nomadic "barbarians" were key agents of contact and tech trade.

Like I said, goody huts should be civs and civs goody huts. that includes barbs as well.

Goody Huts should be able to become barbarian that become civs

techathon said:

Goody Huts should be able to become barbarian that become civs

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I don't think we should categorize into different types of entity. Everythings should be the same type of entity. Barbs, goody huts and civs woudl be civs, but in a modified maneer.

Naokaukodem said:

I don't think we should categorize into different types of entity. Everythings should be the same type of entity. Barbs, goody huts and civs woudl be civs, but in a modified maneer.

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WOuld they still have the same function as they do now? I mean would you be able to get free tchs from them. Would they be playable?Tribes like that are were technacally civs, though. HOw about we could add in nobadic groups that can uprise, attack and act like barbarians except the can be agents of contact and trade like they were. Lets say civ A has gunpowder and Civ B doesn't. THe nomads would be able to buy gunpowder from civ A and sell it to civ B for a higher price. They could be like barters. They eventually settle down and make a civ, too.

I think the bad named barbarians tribes, and the goody huts, are actually did in a good way, but is poorly representated to the understanding of the player.

I'll explain myself:

1) Barbarians, in story of the world, are "Other civilizations" out of your great empire.

This barbarians civs are, for example, any other civ in the game that denies to cooperate (diplo, commerce, vasall) and you finally destroy it... Or you are destroyed by them. (Easy comparation in real world; Viking, Incas, Celts....) In the other hand, In a Civ game, the barbarians itself are the minor civs that are too much powerless than you can conquist them by simple erasing a city or kill some units.

This way, Barbarians civs are represented In Civ game as: Enemy civilizations that you consider that they are Uncivilizated (low tech, agressive mood...), And as focused and little agressive and unique little civs (cities or units)

How to improve barbarians in the way they are in Civ? Giving a "minor civ name" for units and barbarians cities, don't calling them simply as "barbarians"

2) Goody huts: They are well representated in game, but with no deep.
When your civ founds a goody hut, really they're are first meeting a peacefully minor city that unifies with your empire, giving you soldiers (and the supposed minor population unificating with your cities, not considerable by population effects) or giving a Settler (you replace the location of their city)

How to improve goody huts in the way they are in Civ? Giving to every goody hut a "minor civ name", and when you meet the huts, you got a "event message" saying that you found a peacefull town and theyr people joins your civilization. Can be as the exact way in civ V (random tech/unit/settler/gold) or you can select the benefit in some random options

Well, this are some ideas ^^

Alarconte said:

I think the bad named barbarians tribes, and the goody huts, are actually did in a good way, but is poorly representated to the understanding of the player.

I'll explain myself:

1) Barbarians, in story of the world, are "Other civilizations" out of your great empire.

This barbarians civs are, for example, any other civ in the game that denies to cooperate (diplo, commerce, vasall) and you finally destroy it... Or you are destroyed by them. (Easy comparation in real world; Viking, Incas, Celts....) In the other hand, In a Civ game, the barbarians itself are the minor civs that are too much powerless than you can conquist them by simple erasing a city or kill some units.

This way, Barbarians civs are represented In Civ game as: Enemy civilizations that you consider that they are Uncivilizated (low tech, agressive mood...), And as focused and little agressive and unique little civs (cities or units)

How to improve barbarians in the way they are in Civ? Giving a "minor civ name" for units and barbarians cities, don't calling them simply as "barbarians"

2) Goody huts: They are well representated in game, but with no deep.
When your civ founds a goody hut, really they're are first meeting a peacefully minor city that unifies with your empire, giving you soldiers (and the supposed minor population unificating with your cities, not considerable by population effects) or giving a Settler (you replace the location of their city)

How to improve goody huts in the way they are in Civ? Giving to every goody hut a "minor civ name", and when you meet the huts, you got a "event message" saying that you found a peacefull town and theyr people joins your civilization. Can be as the exact way in civ V (random tech/unit/settler/gold) or you can select the benefit in some random options

Well, this are some ideas ^^

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well thats what i mean, in ancient times, barbarians can be payed to attack an enemy city, while still being looked down as simply barbarians, yet their was communication going on, and each barbarian tribe ought to have its own name, and allegance, religion etc...

bar·bar·i·an (bär-bâr-n)
n.
1. A member of a people considered by those of another nation or group to have a primitive civilization.
2. A fierce, brutal, or cruel person.
-free online dictionary.com
Yes. They should be civs. The goody huts should be nomadic or nomads added to the game as they caused massive invasions (mongols) were key agents of contact, and (in some cases) techniologically advanced due to techs from other civs.

Just a weird thought about nomads. What if you could have a worker found a goody hut (or something alike to it) that can be nomadic and every once and a while spawn a solder or worker or settler. They can harvest the resources their on for a # of turns we don't want sedantary nomads. Like a mongol camp in the warlords mod, w/ the resources incouded.

techathon said:

WOuld they still have the same function as they do now?

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Some civs will be up to dialogue, some not. Also, you may be in war with some civs as soon as you meet them. But it may not be the case early, as early, most civs out there are only villages and not civs yet. (the more when agriculture and specialization isn't found yet)

I mean would you be able to get free tchs from them.

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Yes. They would act like Colonization indian cities. When hitting them with a unit, you could have rumors (maps), free tech, gold, scouts, etc...

Would they be playable?

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I think that if Firaxis continues in the way they were in Civ4, they will not be playable, as this would do wy too much work. (leaders, traits, uniques...) But if all civs are the same, then it would be easy to propose the player a very long list of civs.

Tribes like that are were technacally civs, though. HOw about we could add in nobadic groups that can uprise, attack and act like barbarians except the can be agents of contact and trade like they were. Lets say civ A has gunpowder and Civ B doesn't. THe nomads would be able to buy gunpowder from civ A and sell it to civ B for a higher price. They could be like barters. They eventually settle down and make a civ, too.

Click to expand...

Nomad civs would be a nice addition indeed.

One interesting Idea is exacltly we talking to them... our relations with any given barbarian tribe would always be cautious and below catious... so trade relations would always be "complicated"...
in CivIV the barbs have a nice touch, the units lvl up, they conquer cities, they travel the land "exploring directly at you" ^_^ and they also have "cities of their own" which has a nice ring to it..

Like people said they're are the "uncivilized civilizations", so they must be always different than the rest... but I still think that diplomacy should be open for us, to instigate them in warrying against an enemy without us declaring war (that should also be an option for other civs) it would be nice if we could as the Chinese to declare war on the Mongols while we stay "neutral" but we provide units, gold, techs etc (we fuel the chinese "war machine" )but ofc just like when our spies are discovered... if the Mongols discover it they would get pissed at us... 1 way of discovering is having that option in the spying menu, like "finding out nation secrets", sometimes good info, sometimes bad info, sometimes useless info (like "We just found out Xerxes secret stash of Civilization copies" «« useless information except for Firaxis )

I'm getting waaay of topic here, my bad... I got carried away :S ... continuing...
One think that would be nice is that they should give "individual" names to the many barbarian tribes... so that we can have different relationships with the different barbarian tribes around us...
2nd thing, when a barbarian conquered a city close to their borders it should had made avaible the possibility of them becoming a real civilization... in that case, pray that they are weaker or have a cautious attitude towards us...

One thing cool is having a "friendly barbarian" unit travelling randomly across the map, and when they come in contact with our border, or units they will give stuff to us... basically a travelling goody hut...

Faladhrym said:

Like people said they're are the "uncivilized civilizations", so they must be always different than the rest...

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Not that uncivilized. They were organized to the point they could do wars against the biggest empire: Rome. Plus, technically, they were civilizations: agriculture + specialization. So it would be realistic to have them as civilizations in the game.

Not to mention that having barbarians as civilizations open up a range of interesting possibilites: diplomacy, trade, peace... plus, you could have whole parts of lands occupied by barbarians, just it was the case in History, as they would be civs, opposed to their sporadic presence in the past games.

Finally, having barbarians as civs would make their culture weight important for future rebellions: if you have a system when conquered countries keep their culture, one could base the rebellion factor on non assimilated culture: the countries would rebel.

2nd thing, when a barbarian conquered a city close to their borders it should had made avaible the possibility of them becoming a real civilization...

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I am opposed to this kind of artificial conversion, as I am opposed to any kind of artificial differenciation. Barbs should be civs like others, their state of "barbarians" coming with their situation, not from the beginning by an arbitrary decision.

See this thread. Personally, I love this idea of contacting barbarians. Sure, it would get rid of the idea of barbarians in civ as we know it, but I think it would be an overall positive change. Realistically it makes sense if you can negotiate with them, given that it is fairly safe the assume that they are advanced enough to understand the basics of communication with other human beings.