Early in the game, before the civ I'm attacking has spies of their own, do you get more reduction in their city defense by using 3 spies individually or is it the same result as using one spy ring, or does the spy ring reduce more defense?
3 spies vs. spy ring
- Thread starter Sard
- Start date
bonafide11
Worker
I assume one spy will suffice, the spy ring is only useful if they also have spies in their city. I doubt a spy ring will affect the city defenses any more than a single spy.
NwabudikeMorgan
CEO
as far as i know the spy ring has the same effect on the fortifications, but it is helpful when they have a spy defending their city ,especially one with walls, as one spy alone will almost never defeat theirs.
So if city defense is 15: first spy reduces to 14, second spy reduces to 13, etc..
My question is: would a spy ring reduce defenses from 15 to 12 or only from 15 to 14?
I understand you need a spy ring if they have defensive spies but my question is related to the more effective use of 3 spies when you know they do not have one in the city you are attacking.
thanks
NwabudikeMorgan
CEO
The defensive disruption caused by a spy is not a set point value: ie: 15 ---> 14--->13 etc
The spy removes the +100% bonus defensive units receive for fortifying.
for example: A rifleman army in a city on a hill with walls would have base (15) + fortify bonus (15) +hill bonus (7.5) +walls bonus (15) for a defense total of 52.5
If you used a spy to disrupt defenses, the fortify bonus would go away, and the army's defense would fall to 37.5.
because it works this way a spy ring is no more helpful than a single spy (because you can only take away the bonus once, then it's gone, having 3 spies doesn't do any more)
The spy ring is only of value for breaking through defensive spies.
The spy removes the +100% bonus defensive units receive for fortifying.
for example: A rifleman army in a city on a hill with walls would have base (15) + fortify bonus (15) +hill bonus (7.5) +walls bonus (15) for a defense total of 52.5
If you used a spy to disrupt defenses, the fortify bonus would go away, and the army's defense would fall to 37.5.
because it works this way a spy ring is no more helpful than a single spy (because you can only take away the bonus once, then it's gone, having 3 spies doesn't do any more)
The spy ring is only of value for breaking through defensive spies.
OH!! How interesting! thanks for the info
plasticbeast
Chieftain
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- Jul 21, 2008
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After reading this thread I am unsure of something:
Does spy's work add up? Say I want to send 3 separate spys into the city I want to attack. The 1st one will get rid of the %100 fortification. Can a 2nd & 3rd spy decrease the defense even more? Is it even an option to do that?
Does spy's work add up? Say I want to send 3 separate spys into the city I want to attack. The 1st one will get rid of the %100 fortification. Can a 2nd & 3rd spy decrease the defense even more? Is it even an option to do that?
You are only removing the defensive BONUS with spies. During the same turn, using additional spies would not help any more as far as disrupting defenses. However, if you could sabotage their wall, that would be an added benefit.
Also of note, sometimes it is a good idea to use a spy-ring to take out their spy and then "Leave Quietly" and send in a solo spy. Your spy-ring lives to fight another day.
Also of note, sometimes it is a good idea to use a spy-ring to take out their spy and then "Leave Quietly" and send in a solo spy. Your spy-ring lives to fight another day.
Also of note, sometimes it is a good idea to use a spy-ring to take out their spy and then "Leave Quietly" and send in a solo spy. Your spy-ring lives to fight another day.
How funny, I never noticed that option. Good strategy though for keeping the ring around!
bonafide11
Worker
Also of note, sometimes it is a good idea to use a spy-ring to take out their spy and then "Leave Quietly" and send in a solo spy. Your spy-ring lives to fight another day.
Good idea, never thought of that!
goofyballer
Chieftain
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- Jun 12, 2008
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Here's an issue I have w/ spies - when I disrupt fortifications, I'll attack on the same turn and the defending unit will still have a 50% bonus for "Fortifying". I'm not sure if
- Spies disrupting fortifications only reduces the fortification bonus by 50%, or
- Spies disrupting fortifications only disrupt fully fortified units, and what I'm seeing is a unit that just coincidentally started fortifying 1 turn ago and thus got "missed" by the spy
The latter one sounds like it would be a bug, no?
- Spies disrupting fortifications only reduces the fortification bonus by 50%, or
- Spies disrupting fortifications only disrupt fully fortified units, and what I'm seeing is a unit that just coincidentally started fortifying 1 turn ago and thus got "missed" by the spy
The latter one sounds like it would be a bug, no?
Maquiladora
Chieftain
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- May 9, 2002
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I have also noticed this (DS version).
runningtired
Chieftain
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- Jul 22, 2008
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Perhaps another possibility:
* since fortification takes two steps, perhaps the spy only knocks away one half of the fortifications
* perhaps the spy only reduces the fortification bonus for one unit, lets say Army_01. If Army_02 now has a greater defense rating (with or without a fort. bonus) now you see this unit first when attacking.
Note: I haven't played enough to see this for myself, just guessing.
* since fortification takes two steps, perhaps the spy only knocks away one half of the fortifications
* perhaps the spy only reduces the fortification bonus for one unit, lets say Army_01. If Army_02 now has a greater defense rating (with or without a fort. bonus) now you see this unit first when attacking.
Note: I haven't played enough to see this for myself, just guessing.
goofyballer
Chieftain
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#1 is def possible, for #2 the CPU cities always seem to have like 20 armies in them so I really doubt that only one is fully fortified (I've never used a spy and then run into a unit with 100% fortifications).
NwabudikeMorgan
CEO
it removes all the fortifications on all units in the city for 1 turn.
and on the 360 version. I tried it a few times this morning and it wasn't making a difference at all. Tokyo's modern infantry had 82 defense before and after.
Don't the Japanese get Loyalty +50% automatically? +50% Veteran, +50% Loyalty, and +100% wall may be your problem. (Also, if Tokyo was on a hill, there's another +50%).
Bring a battleship fleet for support and some veteran modern artilleries. Bombers and fighters are good to wear them down as well.
Bring a battleship fleet for support and some veteran modern artilleries. Bombers and fighters are good to wear them down as well.
But my scout unit showed the unit's defense before I sent the spy in, and the number was the same after I sent the spy in. I tried it several times. I had two cities just cranking out spy rings, and I was kidnapping every great person I could.
goofyballer
Chieftain
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- Jun 12, 2008
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I dunno if it's my imagination or what but spy combat seems by far to be the most random and unpredictable of any combat. I regularly have spy veteran spy rings lose to a single spy (like 4.5 vs 2.5) only for one spy to then take out that same spy the next turn (1.5 vs 2.5).
NwabudikeMorgan
CEO
agreed, I sent in a spy ring (3) versus a single fortified spy with walls (also 3) and lots, then i sent in a single spy (1) and won ?????
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