Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 35
Proposer: @Enginseer
Proposal:
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 35a
Proposer: @pineappledan
Discussion Thread: (5-38a) Counterproposal: Mongol UA and UB Buff
Current situation
Mongolia's UA - Mongol Terror:
Mounted Ranged Units benefit from Flanking when attacking and gain a +10% Flanking bonus. +100% Tribute Yields from City-State bullying.
Mongol UB - Ger (unique lodge)
unique bonuses underlined
+2 BGP, +1 Faith
+1 to Deer, Bison, horses, cattle, and sheep
+1to Camps
5 food when your borders expand naturally
-25% plot gold purchase cost and +34% border growth modifier
There have been many changes that have affected Mongolia in the recent past:
Note: it is safe to assume that all Mongol cities will have monuments. Therefore, it makes the most sense to focus on the combined power of the UB and a Monument as a starting point.
The tile claim bonus is now 2/3rds as strong when combined with a monument, 1/3rd as strong as it was with Monument and GoE, and roughly 3/8ths as strong as it used to be with all bonuses combined.
Proposal:
UA: Mongol Terror
Mounted Ranged units have +1 Attack. 20% of Yields from City-State bullying is converted to All Yields ( )
UB: Ger (unique Lodge)
unique bonuses underlined. New parts Bolded in Red
+2 BGP, +1 Faith
+1 to Deer, Bison, horses, cattle, and sheep
+1to Camps and Pastures
5 food and Production when your borders expand naturally
-25% plot gold purchase cost and +50% border growth modifier
Reasoning:
Skirmisher bonus change:
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 35
Proposer: @Enginseer
Proposal:
Current | Proposed | Differences | Rationale | |
---|---|---|---|---|
UA | Mongol Terror
| The Secret History
|
| UA's name should be more based on their culture. Their UA should offer a way to make more of their UU in addition to their UB. |
Khan |
|
|
| A khan in historic times was known for its vast horses. With many Khans come many horses. Let this transition into being able to field more mounted units like their buffed skirmishers or in later eras into a productive agribusiness. |
Ger |
|
|
| Why is Mongolia getting something that America UA gets for free and gets rewarded for purchasing tiles? Mongolia doesn't get Food off purchased tiles here. I want to make Ger more Mongolia-like. They get closer to a Khan as they expand and build more Gers. Even in peaceful times, Great Khans were made. |
Mounted Ranged (Skirmisher) Unit Combat Line |
|
| Text change. | I think it's fitting in Mongolia's proposal for them to define what a Skirmisher really is since they don't have a Skirmisher UU in the first place! Change the UA Text and other mentions of these so-called Mounted Ranged into Skirmishers since Light Tanks and Helicopters definitely aren't Mounted Ranged yet have their "Skirmisher Doctrine" Promotion and performs similar roles. |
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 35a
Proposer: @pineappledan
Discussion Thread: (5-38a) Counterproposal: Mongol UA and UB Buff
Current situation
Mongolia's UA - Mongol Terror:
Mounted Ranged Units benefit from Flanking when attacking and gain a +10% Flanking bonus. +100% Tribute Yields from City-State bullying.
Mongol UB - Ger (unique lodge)
unique bonuses underlined
+2 BGP, +1 Faith
+1 to Deer, Bison, horses, cattle, and sheep
+1to Camps
5 food when your borders expand naturally
-25% plot gold purchase cost and +34% border growth modifier
There have been many changes that have affected Mongolia in the recent past:
Spoiler :
- Skirmisher rework:
- changed Skirmishers into high movement, low damage units with flanking support role
- Mongols changed from giving all skirmishers '+2 movement and ZOC' to '+10% flanking and benefit from flanking'
- Khan changes:
- replaced ability to plant citadels with new Ordo unique improvement which has less tile defense, but adds movement to units that pass through it
- gave all khans 10 damage to adjacent enemy units, to go with their enhanced healing of adjacent friendly units
- Tribute reworks
- Adjustments to CS intimidation calculations greatly reduced overall tribute yields, which affects Mongols 2x more than other civs
- Granary/Lodge/Herbalist split:
- The Ger UB used to be a unique Granary.
- Before the Lodge was added, the Granary was a stronger base building which gave more base bonuses more efficiently than the new Lodge
- a proposal changed all other border growth bonuses in the game from plot cost reductions to BGP modifiers.
- This was done because multiple plot cost reductions stack exponentially, and they could combine to greatly increase border expansion. The total number of plot cost reductions also exceeded -100%, so it was possible to bottom-out the bonuses at an artificial minimum of -80% reductions.
- This change to BGP modifiers was a very major nerf to Mongolia's tile claim abilities.
Spoiler Here is a summary of all the sources of tile claim bonuses in the game and what they do :
Spoiler Here is the math breakdown comparing Mongolia's old tile claim rate vs now :
Note: it is safe to assume that all Mongol cities will have monuments. Therefore, it makes the most sense to focus on the combined power of the UB and a Monument as a starting point.
The tile claim bonus is now 2/3rds as strong when combined with a monument, 1/3rd as strong as it was with Monument and GoE, and roughly 3/8ths as strong as it used to be with all bonuses combined.
Proposal:
UA: Mongol Terror
Mounted Ranged units have +1 Attack. 20% of Yields from City-State bullying is converted to All Yields ( )
- no longer benefit from flanking or have flanking bonus
- +100% of tribute yields replaced with yield conversion, like old version of tribute policy
UB: Ger (unique Lodge)
unique bonuses underlined. New parts Bolded in Red
+2 BGP, +1 Faith
+1 to Deer, Bison
+1to Camps and Pastures
5 food and Production when your borders expand naturally
-25% plot gold purchase cost and +50% border growth modifier
Reasoning:
Skirmisher bonus change:
- The Mongol UA needs to convert a ranged support unit into a mainline damage dealer. The current bonus is not sufficient for the task
- +1 attack makes skirmishers capable of more direct damage, but is not unfair because of the skirmisher line's low base RCS
- The bonus is more straightforward, easier to use
- Double attacks means more XP from combat, which means more Khans. The Mongols do not currently have an ability that assists them in generating GGeneral points faster, and +1 attack can do that
- The +1 attack can stack with logistics for 3 attacks on a unit, but this is not recommended. 3 attacks as -30% RCS is barely any more damage than 2 full strength attacks, but costs more moves.
- The flanking bonus can move to be a pickable promotion. The skirmisher line has a shortage of those. see Proposal 5-54
- The current +100% yield bonus is almost identical to the Zulu's +50% intimidation bonus. The end result is more yields from tribute, which makes them functionally indistinguishable
- If Stalker0's Tribute rework goes through, the only yield that base tribute will give is gold. Heavy tribute would be quest rewards, and not interact with tribute bonuses, meaning that the Mongol bonus will only ever give gold, unless paired with some policy augmentation
- Meanwhile the Zulu's bonus will still make heavy tribute easier, so it still retains utility outside of raw gold. This makes the Mongol version of the bonus less flexible and interesting, so it is the Mongol UA that should change.
- just more and stronger yields.
- The Ger is weak, and increasing the numbers it gives is sufficient.
- changing the horse/cattle/sheep bonus to a pasture improvement bonus is cleaner, less text, and still fits the theme well.
Last edited by a moderator: