[UI] (5-NS) Withdraw From Melee Change (Pt 2 - Withdraw -> Melee Damage reduction for certain units)

[Stalker0]

This is Part 2 of a two part series. Part 1 can be found here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-melee-change-pt1-consistent-mechanic.684424/

Ultimately the two can be implemented independently of each other, but they are working around the same concept.

Proposal: Remove Withdraw from Melee on the following items

Unit Updates

• Commando (Technically the commando promotion): Removed
• Destroyer: Removed
• Nau: Removed
• Commanche Rider: Unchanged
• Camel Archer: Unchanged

Promotions

• Blockade: Unchanged
• Wolfpack 3: Removed withdraw from melee.

Wonders

• Alhambra: Now gives two different promotions
  • Skirmisher Units: Gain Jinete promotion - 15% damage reduction from melee attacks when defending.
  • Melee Mounted Units: Gain Scara promotion: +15% damage reduction when attacking.

Rationale:
Withdraw from melee due to its effect of moving your units around the map, is not always a desired mechanic. Sometimes you want a destroyer to hold their ground for example, and not move away from a key spot. This proposal removes the withdraw from core units, and focuses it on optional things like UUs (aka what civ you choose) and promotions. This way if a person wants to utilize the withdraw mechanic, they can CHOOSE to do so, rather than being FORCED to do so.

Alhambra was adjusted to both remove the withdraw and extend a bonus to skirmishers. A number of people voiced that such an ability made as much sense on skirmishers as it did melee, and so since its a wonder the benefit was extended to both lines.

 

[Tekamthi]

its not really the role of these units to hold territory irl -- a "commando" pinned down in a defensive battle against regular army unit should confer bonus to the attacking, regular unit, really. I'd keep withdraw on commando, or remove but not replace it with the melee defend buff; otherwise commando becomes more just another front line infantry unit, a same-but-different land melee as we already have.

The destroyer another one, these are relatively small warships, sure "Sometimes you want a destroyer to hold their ground", but sometimes you want a lot of things that aren't possible in war. I sometimes want a destroyer to jump out of water and intercept incoming ICBM, but just not what it does. That said its pretty odd that destroyers withdraw from destroyers.

All of this concern is best addressed by the other proposal, just adjust the number of withdraws per turn to suit each unit, some here should be limited to 1 per turn and others 2 or 3 maybe.

 

[azum4roll]

It now takes 2 melee attacks or a lot of flanks to take down a submarine, on top of having to reveal it. Is that desirable?

 

[Stalker0]

I sometimes want a destroyer to jump out of water and intercept incoming ICBM, but just not what it does.

Actually funny enough this is exactly what the unit does. The destroyer can intercept 2 tiles into land, so if a missile is used there, it can be intercepted by the destroyer.

 

[Stalker0]

It now takes 2 melee attacks or a lot of flanks to take down a submarine, on top of having to reveal it. Is that desirable?

I think this is a fair point and would love some opinions before I finalize. Personally I think a wolfpack III sub is already plenty powerful and has move after attack for that "slipperyness", so I would be find just removing the benefit entirely from the sub.

If you want your sub to avoid attacks, well then use its stealtha nd move after attack to keep it away from the enemy. But if an enemy destroyer hits it, let it go boom.

 

[Tekamthi]

Actually funny enough this is exactly what the unit does. The destroyer can intercept 2 tiles into land, so if a missile is used there, it can be intercepted by the destroyer.

true, but i perpetually seem to have them 1-2 tiles away from where they need to be at the critical moment, often right under its path!

 

[BliTTzZ]

Alhambra bonus for mounted melee units could provide -15% damage from melee when attacking.
And for ranged mounted units it could increase their survival by adding +1 movement.
Ranged mounted units are more fragile and could use their mobility to avoid being hit by melee units.

 

[pineappledan]

Commando (Technically the commando promotion): Take 25% less damage when defending from melee.

I would drop from Commando with no replacement.
They also get 25% on attack. It's too much

 

[Stalker0]

I would drop from Commando with no replacement.
They also get 25% on attack. It's too much

Do people actually use commandos for combat that much? I haven't generally found them very strong compared to rifleman

 

[azum4roll]

Do people actually use commandos for combat that much? I haven't generally found them very strong compared to rifleman

@ridjack thinks they're OP, at least.

 

[Anarcomu]

They are quit handy to pillage or divert part of enemy troops, thought I have very mixed results. I used to think they are very good (scout line as a whole), but not anymore.

 

[Stalker0]

PROPOSAL UPDATED: I have removed the ability from Commando with no replacement (people were concerned about the strength combined with survivalism).

 

[Stalker0]

PROPOSAL UPDATED: Nau loses withdraw from melee with no adjustment. Jinete proposal updated to include 5-26a counterproposal. Wolfpack III now updated to remove withdraw from melee.

 

[axatin]

Proposal failed due to lack of sponsorship.