(7-40) Progress: Organization Prod Nerf/Fraternity Food Nerf

[Stalker0]

Proposal: Organization (Progress) policy, reduce hammers from +3 per city to +2. Fraternity (Progress) policy, reduce Food from +3 to +2

Rationale: Its become a common belief that Tradition is too weak and the moment and that progress and authority are too strong. These small adjustments, along with changes to Authority and tradition in other proposals, are meant to help rebalance the trees.

 

[hokath]

I agree with Organization warranting a decrease. +1 movement to workers is already amazing for a tier 1 policy.

But Fraternity is a tier 2 policy. I feel like it should be a bit stronger.
So if anything the +3 gold on Liberty should be the one to go down to +2, or no further changes.

Thoughts?

 

[rkkn]

they're coming for my hammers

 

[azum4roll]

Progress is the infrastructure and early snowball tree. The right side (free Worker, Science on City Connection) is usually preferred over the left, which just got a nerf on other civilians' move speed.

I'd nerf the gold and food to +2 instead of touching the production.

 

[Stalker0]

Progress is the infrastructure and early snowball tree. The right side (free Worker, Science on City Connection) is usually preferred over the left, which just got a nerf on other civilians' move speed.

I'd nerf the gold and food to +2 instead of touching the production.

If I nerf two right side tenents I think that would make the left side too attractive. It’s already a tough decision in many cases

 

[rkkn]

the first policy has a bigger impact on whether you choose left or right, so to better maintain choice balance I'd cut the gold policy instead of the food one

that said I don't think any these policies need nerfs

 

[pineappledan]

What if all city yields were tied to connection in progress, like the? That would delay them a bit

 

[rkkn]

well, it would make distant cities really bad. would need to go authority if you want to reach with your early settles

it's a neat idea tho. makes me want to have a different (4th) policy tree that has very strong bonuses but all of them are only for connected cities, with reduced bonuses for water-only connections

 

[ma_kuh]

Maybe borrow the Commerce pantheon language: bonus in city connections and the capital (maybe that's already implied, is the capital "connected to the capital?"), such that you still get an immediate bonus from the policy, and with a trade route can also patch over new cities until you get a road established. I like it.

 

[Stalker0]

hehe the whole point of this was to propose some nice simple nerfs. Real easy adjustments, quick little DB update. I feel like we are now trying to change the entire flow and strategy of how progress works, which is overkill imo.

 

[hokath]

One day, when we all get river connections again.
For now. Take 1 gold off. I'm not fussed about hammers if others think it shouldn't be touched. Don't touch food.

 

[Stalker0]

One day, when we all get river connections again.
For now. Take 1 gold off. I'm not fussed about hammers if others think it shouldn't be touched. Don't touch food.

why not touch food though? I mean tradition is the growth tree. Doesn't it make sense to weaken Progress' food to better fit that theme?

 

[rkkn]

I mean tradition is the growth tree.

Growth is not part of the stated theme.
It currently has a growth% bonus on the scaler, but that's it. None of its other bonuses have anything to do with food or growth outside of the capital.
And the stated theme is capital and great people.

Currently progress is the best tree for growing your non-capital cities big. and I do think that's how it should be.
And now that I look at it, the progress finisher also has an on-growth bonus. So yeah I agree the food shouldn't be cut

 

[hokath]

why not touch food though? I mean tradition is the growth tree.

Can just as easily say, "why not touch production? Authority is the production tree".

I'm happy with any change, or none. If the azum is correct and everyone takes the free worker, then the gold reduction acts to balance the choice a little. That's an added benefit compared to the other cuts.

 

[Anarcomu]

I always rush left tree, because the added culture looks very valuable to snowball the entire tree.
Dunno if it is the best play, thought.

 

[Stalker0]

If the azum is correct and everyone takes the free worker

its probably the most split I am when it comes to early policy choices. I use both sides first often, completely depends on the situation. Water heavy starts or if I'm trying to eek out a wonder, left side. If I think I can connect early, or if need more military and less buildings, or I have more hammers and less food in my start....right side.

 

[azum4roll]

I always rush left tree, because the added culture looks very valuable to snowball the entire tree.
Dunno if it is the best play, thought.

The researched tech instant culture is what drives the Progress tree early on. Improvements also give more yields than buildings, and you can pre-connect your future settlements with the extra worker.
Unless I have nothing to improve (then why go Progress?), I'd always go right side first.

 

[rkkn]

I go left as well. I like getting and more than getting , most of the time.

 

[Stalker0]

Since there is debate on which yields to nerf, I recommend people make counter proposals to nerf either the gold or science instead of the food, and then we can see which change people prefer

 

[Legen]

I sponsor this.